From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-il1-x133.google.com (mail-il1-x133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 448DF3B29E for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 18:10:07 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-il1-x133.google.com with SMTP id v69so2756831ili.10 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:10:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ew/6PzxJLV0w/8/X9stDMPmG9wBT81kkpEYx+dzgl1E=; b=TGkDzcGuNjKqoxUf500RYc79E0H7VFkuMaxFQ5iwD7sDkFDR53cA/snkxASdmZuJlK kJ9lIrXG1E4jvXmn5PjFtESDntArkAWSHkjm0AMMhbzzH54gtz9AApQlxT6GNGsTDHmT eBX2rbjZ/Dlt0O+4SOx51sBIpc0T4OyavqqIA5MokkB10CXlDq63MxYYMI2875y8h9NC of3a+AHrrflvV/GvaEoAHzdtIqvVGDctjqXx3qppGAdAezd2qNanN2HnFSUS33m2ecq8 3s7P1H/k/gKdcR4IRZRnivFh4iP59pq1ZIZjFAYCxV4+FyJ2cnuWV+nhQ23odO1G7UJb mFPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=ew/6PzxJLV0w/8/X9stDMPmG9wBT81kkpEYx+dzgl1E=; b=ota92JBVTtiqSblWDebOa1VejW6NrfErcZEsPkLm9afnk7zfB5sAyiD6RTEexap3A3 FonawlQgLs90DXatJDEs0ZpOu8S75IPbFx+rFXVnIKSP43/zKmeQsoGuoUlo3+Q9odFd rWH21fcdE/yUwm80uHuc9toYpcQ1EVHpO/ruejCMlR5FJdo+RG2bSLVuBKFEL6+flg5t 11VA+9pueUWyhMfEcfcmolDAbpbpsC/RYT+RFD5morLZEgTkw09GM7x00FGa6NcUe6K7 5Rwdr3406Xn8D7RDJk7vpSWmlNwvfueqsMRwoIEVkhGmr6c65DZ4f2sUQMlZGMq3rtpe HD1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUoXynhJlrqSPUcUG8BCM6C8RCVDkLSowcOo9b0EZblXGvtMGgl DwdQOTDviJVc8WJ6He9IvJkv2SOhYdo/p/K1zvpou3ph X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxCY6897UrneWxOy7L6ZKSX6No8ZIozvFPbDp9o3zo+RXHrCC+3Z9W5vU3pIxArOIc6O9thqkSq2DU8LrU2/eA= X-Received: by 2002:a92:390c:: with SMTP id g12mr6679946ila.246.1576451406422; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:10:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:09:55 -0800 Message-ID: To: ECN-Sane Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] bittorrent & ecn X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 23:10:07 -0000 OK, so I got caught up on sleep and had a chance to look at the packet captures, which were dominated by ecn marks... on UDP traffic... when torrent doesn't support that!!! I think one mystery has been solved. At least one major argentinian ISP (Telecom Argentina S.A. ) is mis-marking a ton of packets (both udp and tcp) as ecn-capable when they aren't. This mystery goes back a couple years! actually, where an enormous amount of CE was seen from argentina in some ietf preso or another. Something like 25%! So I went a little nuts on blocking that from the bgp data I could find on them and their partners... ip route add unreach 181.30.128.0/19 proto 48 ip route add unreach 181.28.0.0/14 proto 48 ip route add unreach 24.232.0.0/16 proto 48 ip route add unreach 190.192.32.246/32 proto 48 ip route add unreach 166.137.40.133/32 proto 48 # around here I just lost it on finding where it was coming from... ip route add unreach 186.137.29.0/24 proto 48 ip route add unreach 186.137.0.0/16 proto 48 # some of these actually could be legit ip route add unreach 190.19.0.0/16 proto 48 ip route add unreach 195.88.0.0/16 proto 48 and ecn marking rates are now pretty tiny. I haven't managed to to look at actual syn negotiations and cwrs yet, and I should come up with something better than this (iptables rules... (the proto 48 is so it gets injected into my babel route tables, cause mismarking yer tcp as ecn capable is a bad idea also... )) Anybody got contacts in argentina? On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 6:56 AM Dave Taht wrote: > > I was kind of wondering if ecn would be used by bittorrent clients and > servers. (it's not supported by utp, I think, but when you use tcp, it > uses default tcp options) So I loaded up (FOR SCIENCE!) 100+ common > torrents with no limits on connections with an inbound fq_codel based > shaper in place and ecn enabled on the torrent client. > > Yep. ecn gets used. How many torrent servers negotiate it? How many > clients? (I imagine the entire apple universe does now) > > qdisc fq_codel 130: parent 1:13 limit 1001p flows 1024 quantum 300 > target 5.0ms interval 100.0ms ecn > Sent 669116971742 bytes 525750376 pkt (dropped 750412, overlimits 0 reque= ues 0) > backlog 288139b 201p requeues 0 > maxpacket 1514 drop_overlimit 1047 new_flow_count 65837164 ecn_mark 70963 > new_flows_len 0 old_flows_len 73 > > sleep 60 > > qdisc fq_codel 130: parent 1:13 limit 1001p flows 1024 quantum 300 > target 5.0ms interval 100.0ms ecn > Sent 671021262523 bytes 527225759 pkt (dropped 792750, overlimits 0 reque= ues 0) > backlog 46605b 39p requeues 0 > maxpacket 1514 drop_overlimit 1047 new_flow_count 66286036 ecn_mark 74965 > new_flows_len 0 old_flows_len 29 > > Remarkably my connection stayed pretty darn usable. In fact, I hardly > noticed. My streaming radio glitched once. Web was fine, but gmail > took a while longer to load all the resources. Taking a packet capture > now. > > This is theoretically the most expensive bit of research I've ever > done for the bufferbloat project, in a matter of hours I'll have > violated copyright ~800 times, which is about 200m dollars at 250k > per. > > Folk are encouraged to use vpns for torrents nowadays, but I can't see > how that would work with libutp and a max rtt of 100ms before it > starts to back off. I guess I'll look at that next. > > Dear RIAA: I promise to delete the files when I'm done, and I'm only > capturing headers on the capture. I'd rather someone with the > protection of a major university followup on this line of research.... > > > -- > Make Music, Not War > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > CTO, TekLibre, LLC > http://www.teklibre.com > Tel: 1-831-435-0729 --=20 Make Music, Not War Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-435-0729