Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet
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From: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
Cc: Dave Taht <dave@taht.net>,
	 "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net"
	<ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	"tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] is FQ actually widely deployed?
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:09:17 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAA93jw4V_NtiuJJDtfVFBt-fHAWhkx7RFNFAaW=5gG3ORvV8cg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1907221609330.19225@uplift.swm.pp.se>

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 7:14 AM Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:
>
> On Fri, 19 Jul 2019, Dave Taht wrote:
>
> > In particular conflating "low latency" really confounds the subject
> > matter, and has for years. FQ gives "low latency" for the vast
> > majority of flows running below their fair share. L4S promises "low
>
> My observations from the business is that FQ just isn't a thing, in
> reality.

It's not an easily discussed "thing". As one example of many, if there is
anybody out there in https://common.net/ 's service range that would
like to do some benchmarking...

FQ has always been part of meraki's products and ubnt's airmax. Meraki
does it a bit weirdly, doing sfq at a low level and codel via click.

> I run CAKE myself here on my OpenWrt box and it works great, but I have
> yet to find a commercially available box used by ISPs or something that is

It is certainly a sadness that more ISPs are not shipping gear that
does this at this point.
There are several I know of in addition to common and free.fr but
can't talk about it.

The biggest penetration is on QCA wifi'd devices where no
configuration is required.

> a big-seller in electronics stores that use FQ_anything, or is even flow
> aware when it comes to forwarding.

Hmm? Nearly everything derived from openwrt commercially has it. More
generally, debian linux derived
Google wifi, chromebooks, eero have publically disclosed their usage.

I have not purchased any newer routers in years, but I recently
configged a new synology
router for a friend, and it had "something" that did the right things,
packet captures were interleaved...


>
> I have heard nothing about FQ being implemented in packet accelerators. I
> do hear about people wanting to turn on things that control delay/buffer
> fill, but this is still single queue with no flow-aware anything.

This seems true.

> Do we have numbers on how much FQ is actually out there? If we don't, can
> we measure it? Anyone know of devices shipping or being designed that does
> FQ of some kind?

see above?

> --
> Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
> _______________________________________________
> Ecn-sane mailing list
> Ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/ecn-sane



-- 

Dave Täht
CTO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-831-205-9740

  parent reply	other threads:[~2019-07-22 17:09 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 14+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-07-22 14:14 Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-07-22 15:20 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-22 17:05   ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2019-07-22 18:02     ` Pete Heist
2019-07-23  5:32     ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-07-23  5:57       ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-23  6:06         ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-22 22:14   ` Jonathan Foulkes
2019-07-22 22:24     ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-22 17:09 ` Dave Taht [this message]
2019-07-23  5:34   ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-07-23  6:13     ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-23  6:21       ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-07-23 10:57         ` Dave Taht

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