From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd43.google.com (mail-io1-xd43.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FFF23CB47 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd43.google.com with SMTP id j6so426426ioa.5 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:09:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=C47meA34Z2d6av98ws+YdKOTMX/7k6sgb0ooGvri99g=; b=S45No43fbLlUheEUGFvFhaGpLO5HSEvHfpx3fjjJxh46g6BFb0myc3/QO5887PSMfE FJ6tVng9oSNT3FTlEWWTQMh8YyBTgQGEMetdgGFh8Fgc0aAkFAkbm5FeNFJUxlDxEtQ4 5IwZVfzmk8EURDzfQf0rS7Q5V8CRqIQjlnMFzkORD0Dg1jhbpNJzbv0apQKJ+ZB0dd09 RksRS1L2LDJaHzxOc/BO4UbYd2ecr37l5rGqJu9IvCtWw8ffcOCJ2lzuUYhIZzAD8Aka +UD+RTQUCaqNlaAnhnbO/ET503sJUNU4YQhhmI522i0fGOQ3NIdpdkEem1fwLIb+UcGK pMFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=C47meA34Z2d6av98ws+YdKOTMX/7k6sgb0ooGvri99g=; b=ODiRTnEOjaaudlgko2G1viUm3IL4gz0TIFK/FLQUhrX4NJ9EpIyHVLYn1e6cydvpmz TvMkfWqacc4NPFG2T63IeKwlmnxCfpPGiFV8qL+1HdikCC5bfgxsxmeu/vhkgZsxVSMd Ry9aClaIyF/V1Vmzy+U5rLXyBGghmRkn8ajMDwDXkEJs+RkJTlYpBER/dJ3Xg1kq4am6 EM8FxrgXodRXSDYxuJeQKhfSHZjcquXRyVJ/m198t02WdCeRGqpD/oH3XnMfSDSblbGH n1Yo5i7MgjxZf64XtIloHQuErcoyhLTJR6abjS23rWsWqMquIxefPvOb92ZfMU8UkrFa Zuxw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUjtkMsz+0NGjjUmPxe166VSIag6wsm+ph7DFdbwigMDlOelC8h nAI42QlKS95ipFBN4XmOEoiingF0HkEdRbOkXlE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzS0IrlqlEM5AVY2FENSxtfn/BQi+++Ywei7ClN0VpeBh0MIV/lOFpNi4JRpa7SJmqdo4vaMfOyWaeDtmU1jYw= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:8b43:: with SMTP id z3mr63810902iom.287.1563815369634; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:09:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:09:17 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mikael Abrahamsson Cc: Dave Taht , "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] is FQ actually widely deployed? X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:09:30 -0000 On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 7:14 AM Mikael Abrahamsson wrote= : > > On Fri, 19 Jul 2019, Dave Taht wrote: > > > In particular conflating "low latency" really confounds the subject > > matter, and has for years. FQ gives "low latency" for the vast > > majority of flows running below their fair share. L4S promises "low > > My observations from the business is that FQ just isn't a thing, in > reality. It's not an easily discussed "thing". As one example of many, if there is anybody out there in https://common.net/ 's service range that would like to do some benchmarking... FQ has always been part of meraki's products and ubnt's airmax. Meraki does it a bit weirdly, doing sfq at a low level and codel via click. > I run CAKE myself here on my OpenWrt box and it works great, but I have > yet to find a commercially available box used by ISPs or something that i= s It is certainly a sadness that more ISPs are not shipping gear that does this at this point. There are several I know of in addition to common and free.fr but can't talk about it. The biggest penetration is on QCA wifi'd devices where no configuration is required. > a big-seller in electronics stores that use FQ_anything, or is even flow > aware when it comes to forwarding. Hmm? Nearly everything derived from openwrt commercially has it. More generally, debian linux derived Google wifi, chromebooks, eero have publically disclosed their usage. I have not purchased any newer routers in years, but I recently configged a new synology router for a friend, and it had "something" that did the right things, packet captures were interleaved... > > I have heard nothing about FQ being implemented in packet accelerators. I > do hear about people wanting to turn on things that control delay/buffer > fill, but this is still single queue with no flow-aware anything. This seems true. > Do we have numbers on how much FQ is actually out there? If we don't, can > we measure it? Anyone know of devices shipping or being designed that doe= s > FQ of some kind? see above? > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > _______________________________________________ > Ecn-sane mailing list > Ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/ecn-sane --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-205-9740