From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-il1-x135.google.com (mail-il1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB7303B29D for ; Sat, 21 Mar 2020 00:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-il1-x135.google.com with SMTP id p12so7884578ilm.7 for ; Fri, 20 Mar 2020 21:24:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XMmVkIRv5KZVsWCDTgMB0CT7nNfZtH6DZ8usQLh4hvk=; b=aouGJ929G0n16XQxZGzujN2hTu5dGOWk0FQenzEUlbg0CiGe4GXy0C5uCklmGBl6Fk NntKIAQ8rshf4ePRfBy0KbZAvuzma7pKxXsOs+nPSDVc9AkKBqbzxLMto0+tsXh2Go4W zBqv+stL/FNzBRJ/4ASrxYhcM0Dkc3kASNPK//FxjPTIhq6tzD+Nq5Op7IawYUKlzszT LEV1gTUyqgr2WfvSyhkIL1JLRBxCy4F5xSsi9VutNj21S/fAmr+5RGl1iRRqycMegON6 T7+SPqDlqvYfRT5m9OGvTcQGKWOFsYjOhRr44p+1trA70WevoeGtycOvAYSwrcFMp90I AIQg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=XMmVkIRv5KZVsWCDTgMB0CT7nNfZtH6DZ8usQLh4hvk=; b=N/cMl+oRT40o8ahzroyRf1UvIaiAZG4YMdpu9xKI+euu5NFIKFyDGDcag94IcSh70u 69cYdDtmWRl9gvH3AK4Yca4gP8Y0EPiPIKkjNdV8wbZsAmTyr0K58u2Q/k9AYgPyO7Wy q/vwsvrOOpZbZU35sfeLAn/F747KItwrNLcXQQtRtaRyEE6lbrAy9/Irs+06ARYFAgn+ 8L1loOcYFeFwU9Ks8Dc/Zd0OVV98j2kNfaLYQipBcLw82ZKqb8lg1Eu9eF+qCTZnBuHV mQskM4W2c8AsCuvF5IF3XrRsWb3TATEYGY5m2RIFs0G6ZgFhYbXWCyT9pscGsCMaoiU4 XBFg== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ3q1HuGMp1St5zdtMTJLWSvv3qB+v/B56qrdFXWTV2xPt9nlnzL hqDQb3sslqApfi7N9WXwk3H0FDX+pi4wqiV2Bmc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vuVWeJ65Zq8IAAH7jlZzfka/HpmSU2LEc7nhoJzkdVkOW+v91YApBxklrW6AgtGd/CLeKgrHi0uVv/E8fOrSgU= X-Received: by 2002:a92:6e11:: with SMTP id j17mr11584735ilc.249.1584764640408; Fri, 20 Mar 2020 21:24:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <80F6ABAB-EDDA-4B06-9014-D31E448FD027@akamai.com> <3644FEFF-F181-47A1-AD50-562662EEDCBA@heistp.net> <28972090-FBD2-40E5-AA2E-DFB79C2DA16A@ifi.uio.no> <9427F843-64FC-4998-B3E1-0299162C1C7D@heistp.net> In-Reply-To: <9427F843-64FC-4998-B3E1-0299162C1C7D@heistp.net> From: Dave Taht Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2020 21:23:49 -0700 Message-ID: To: Pete Heist Cc: Michael Welzl , ECN-Sane Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] osx not doing ecn for me X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2020 04:24:01 -0000 Going back to looking at this my devices... my mac rarely attempts ecn over ipv4 or ipv6 nowadays. It seems to fall back to not even trying, frequently. So for example on one rrul test on a local AP, it will successfuly try for all the connection, but on a subsequent test won't try at all or only try two or so. I sat down to look at it harder with the rrul test against various servers, today.... There is a complex heuristic at work here that I do not understand. It's really hard to do science when you can't force it to always negotiate, but I guess it explains some of the complex data I have from the field where the attempts do not match the size of the deployment in any sane way. This is osx high sierra 10.13.6. On Fri, Jan 10, 2020 at 1:41 AM Pete Heist wrote: > > > > On Jan 10, 2020, at 9:48 AM, Michael Welzl wrote: > > > >> On Jan 10, 2020, at 12:45 AM, Dave Taht wrote: > >> > >> On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 3:30 PM Pete Heist wrote: > >>> > >>> Mine negotiates it, but I=E2=80=99m stuck on 10.13. > >>> > >>> This likely isn=E2=80=99t the problem, but I=E2=80=99ve fallen for th= e trap before that =E2=80=9Cnetstat -sp tcp=E2=80=9D needs to be run as roo= t or all counters show 0... > >> > >> No, that was the trap I'd fallen for. I'd seen it not attempt a couple > >> negotiations (from looking at the packet captures), then ran that, and > >> panicked! > > > > =E2=80=A6 and I thought that your Mac had discovered that you hate ECN = and turned it off just for you :) > > I=E2=80=99d started on some other good conspiracy theories when it didn= =E2=80=99t work for me but Jon set me straight. :) > --=20 Make Music, Not War Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-435-0729