Re: [Ecn-sane] IETF 110 quick summary

[Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>]

Thx very much for the update. I wanted to note that
preseem does a lot of work with wisps and I wish they'd share more
data on it, as well as our ever present mention of free.fr.

Another data point is that apple's early rollout of ecn was kind of
a failure, and there are now so many workarounds in the os for it as
to make coherent testing impossible.

I do wish there was more work on ecn enabling bbr, as presently
it does negotiate ecn often and then completely ignores it. You can
see this in traces from dropbox in particular.



On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 3:47 PM Pete Heist <pete@heistp.net> wrote:
>
> Just responding to Dave's ask for a quick IETF 110 summary on ecn-sane,
> after one day. We presented the data on ECN at MAPRG
> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-heist-tsvwg-ecn-deployment-observations/
> ). It basically just showed that ECN is in use by endpoints (more as a
> proportion across paths than a proportion of flows), that RFC3168 AQMs
> do exist out there and are signaling, and that the ECN field can be
> misused. There weren't any questions, maybe because we were the last to
> present and were already short on time.
>
> We also applied that to L4S by first explaining that risk is the
> product of severity and prevalence, and tried to increase the awareness
> about the flow domination problem when L4S flows meet non-L4S flows
> (ECN or not) in a 3168 queue. Spreading this information seems to go
> slowly, as we're still hearing "oh really?", which leads me to believe
> 1) that people are tuning this debate out, and 2) it just takes a long
> time to comprehend, and to believe. It's still our stance that L4S
> can't be deployed due to its signalling design, or if it is, the end
> result is likely to be more bleaching and confusion with the DS field.
>
> There was a question I'd already heard before about why fq_codel is
> being deployed at an ISP, so I tried to cover that over in tsvwg.
> Basically, fq_codel is not ideal for this purpose, lacking host and
> subscriber fairness, but it's available and effective, so it's a good
> start.
>
> Wednesday's TSVWG session will be entirely devoted to L4S drafts.
>
>
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