From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi1-x22b.google.com (mail-oi1-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E1EC3B2A4 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oi1-x22b.google.com with SMTP id c15so11806913oic.3 for ; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 08:36:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HZxIUso5tTWxDEm1otnDpiERUu/1tjvmsPyHllCK21E=; b=b8Y+cK6oBr2jcosO6jhELRSrOmjklYQsi66/+RvohaQvPghRxVy1BIOQGQNy8C0Iu1 IXTIGrRVQ0vo3E3x2Wrn0ug4K5j9qT4fcY3m07N/6jv9xmPUG+BD8FwjZnt3hz1XBZCo tx2taTiSkC3GiLTpO4dAkPLtsaZlywagYaRAie8sIUTLNqw94Fah9T0Tr8NxqA/Ol82w KoHFbmcLjjayhr5FoEGSpuMid4AqdNhoUXv9iVS56Buw48peV3VRQsXLOYh2irsoBSel hqPKXMYT96mX52rfilibUju84R90DYv2O/q1sI/KzxrPicYS5aJw6McPtWQ2ExZxW2vu sP9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=HZxIUso5tTWxDEm1otnDpiERUu/1tjvmsPyHllCK21E=; b=hCbaxMtrbzOFz/5oyof5TGh2dt1yU+FxKwASonZ3F6ksTYYYuXdh3VJgwFE/effaOb VEVBZZaw563Uzqe6na6Avwy760o1iIBMFiM70yik2IAH9H4vo2irBxnNy+egv/0HXb7z 3JdS+CDP55uxl1j++jw6AzkB2NSfBVSVDC5/wpQfx44LNgV7SP0SdiB2OwQivEK1XcuR E+oRJEW49QWmu/vLwZwfavfwuyA29D7BOVY6B3Rk/vhlV4ZLaNpzlxLnj36j/nrHqzPM Xkr8lkg3dT7uazKP1Z/raWbaYWNMwB/tzFjKVp66RYLrQK2mZWK7JKSt1Pip/84oOONT x/rw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVUTk02vtB8QAwJlC55oz50+wLRP/7Scnd93dtfG5UWwLX9AunF 1R1MZRMK4aRzKZRhNwCAESDAphv1pfkSYxnMoDg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxHAVznyy9i3poEkx4BHaT8kTU6lYMOXF2lAmQtV+Vhu8WGoyrCSjtBCElDXDswZM8j1ME3use+g+hPYC+kQ2I= X-Received: by 2002:a02:3093:: with SMTP id q141mr4835966jaq.128.1565105768541; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 08:36:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <24f7b15a-129f-ca44-60e0-32c7d23eadf4@bobbriscoe.net> <0E44351D-2520-45AD-A10A-8E2FFE186722@gmx.de> <20C58AE1-CAC4-480F-8E80-1F5A09ED53EA@gmx.de> <3AB4DBF2-C0B3-45EE-8E82-E2D337EA346E@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 08:35:56 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jonathan Morton Cc: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de, tcpm IETF list , ECN-Sane , tsvwg IETF list Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] ECN CE that was ECT(0) incorrectly classified as L4S X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 15:36:09 -0000 On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 8:28 AM Jonathan Morton wrot= e: > > > On 6 Aug, 2019, at 5:34 pm, wrote: > > > > Public peerings and not well dimensioned networks may suffer from regul= ar congestion. I'm not sure to which extent technical standards can signifi= cantly improve service quality in that situation. IP transport must work as= good as possible also in such a situation, of course. > > Obviously the application of AQM will not magically improve total through= put. What it can do, however, is reduce latency and packet loss, and there= by improve perceived reliability of the service. It may even improve goodp= ut for the same throughput - an increase in efficiency. > > This is especially true under emergency overload conditions, which is whe= n people most desperately want a functioning network, but it is most likely= to collapse under the strain. Often a disaster will incidentally knock ou= t some proportion of network infrastructure in the area, turning a previous= ly well-proportioned network into an under-proportioned one, simultaneously= with a sharp increase in demand as people try to find out what is going on= or communicate with friends and relatives, and emergency response teams al= so try to coordinate their essential work. Overbuffering, the silent killer: http://blog.cerowrt.org/post/bufferbloat_on_the_backbone/ > So IMO networks should be designed to work well when congested, even when= they are also designed to never *be* congested. Technical specifications = already exist and are well tested for this purpose. Having them built in a= nd turned on from the factory would be a great step forward. I live in california, where I kind of expect the network to collapse in the next Big One. > > - Jonathan Morton > _______________________________________________ > Ecn-sane mailing list > Ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/ecn-sane --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-205-9740