From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-il1-x12e.google.com (mail-il1-x12e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38FCA3B2A4 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 21:09:30 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-il1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id s15so21437595iln.1 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 18:09:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=0tPusATCFS+NdG6d7pqgNet+bOg2VotZ3zh94weNlAU=; b=IQ8rF+7KjR03HZvdAN6svzRaVq20HJrLNtpAnQT11MUfvj/MRXTaFn79JlMjGWOr6M uhpIHYiE2+U3wP/r4OzrHjDWrxntOIKqeCcvbDWfAPxdd2m8auqPi+AH2hhuy5YZ0z62 aRSe1uvM+ep80a9d1ZZhZfhowUPLS1jLYgtLeIzpky52jw6Du/1wx+Gn71dyYMerreA5 g+CekWkhl9QO5DhAE1WSBOTh4fap8y0FiP1IdDPhQ4UAoNAmtwp3ps/C3mVz/TC0wiSQ DwPs7nYRcwwA4gMoxSo0GK5ZIkxZXBOMPmbkQ1mArtojXKKlr4ajXQm8f1OZaZtPLiEH Er2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=0tPusATCFS+NdG6d7pqgNet+bOg2VotZ3zh94weNlAU=; b=YVzm7zEGjj1FKylffG1n+qJ0SOwah0vPQkcyxgKqLkJTu7vX8CqW9jhoLwX8Vloq/n SMst8K8TQc0gOYyObj/xGOg1Quj4Ca7ymDGJPD3RuACONpSa9S2O45WIiv205y0Lv0// Y2UpkLdOdeDhyzs84moIPv2YfhU71LiMqI0+ETG8KoWCKroBRH/GjxhHKn1ylWxKH0p2 DoOsfK7iMJ/ZwbEB+fNCjcdeygsMpkL3poYycCnReG5eyU+2K+90egMBM1BQNuptBr9X WCv576vkdivsQqxvO1wWsbHqOMM2hLZXymdWQ7AWsD5Jh0h2KI+VHnhbTzz8RA5Wg61J qaYg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXC4BICEc3yuIQZYO1/jGtYYUzhAcXs1egivJmsrsSbEwDfotEw IN9qVGrz60K/8Tu1TvwmEMuLkyDRf3ndEBdckiV499bXUHY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqypZ1ANjBFhUppyi0DBlKwVR/h8SPiF5TxBwKqCxbeTZyj9Cew9a5r4GDPcmCFy7FZKEpuH60HymPuv3htG99k= X-Received: by 2002:a92:cd0c:: with SMTP id z12mr43937531iln.45.1577412569398; Thu, 26 Dec 2019 18:09:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2019 18:09:22 -0800 Message-ID: To: ECN-Sane Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Ecn-sane] building on BDP X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 02:09:30 -0000 At the stanford buffer-sizing workshop the endless subject of bdp came up - vs 1bdp and s1/qrt(flows) In looking over this .. https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-tsvwg-sessa-6= 1-some-congestion-experienced-00 We're just "used" to a baseline figure in between those and also in no longer riding the sawtooth on *our* fq'd systems, 'round here. It struck me how much our codel and fq_codel results (since 2012), differed from both of theirs and from common industry understandings. We have amassed so much data over time at so many RTTs that pulling out the actual BDP's (and how long we have them as "bursts") - might be useful in terms of restructuring that debate. Another thing on my todo list is how much BBR and BBRv2 hit fq_codel's current assumptions. I have a feeling codel is overly aggressive in a range of rtts (or rather bbr makes a bdp assumption that does not hold for codel'd networks) --=20 Make Music, Not War Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-435-0729