From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-il1-x132.google.com (mail-il1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B73C33B2A4 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 16:08:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-il1-x132.google.com with SMTP id d11so16799810ilc.8 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 13:08:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=LhL7MI8LAgs82iuOqajIXAwq87iLOOn9IXlj/aUXUTw=; b=hOfrqyB/o5Uhqt0IHM8Im/zPNodGAx6rmkIXka5j5uo+gCPTt7OjMS0KhtqbMBoxyp 7Uswh+wM0pVaudoNstgO0aOJV3xyQLZE5OxcUU/YIa0Lw6JJnZXZSPygBlTUQa3Z1ajq dHLnCE6Pd8NGcEiO4qXRtaX3+5k/UxF3TKNMV4GzOWQx5fyMiRDPnm78YE49SRTIBt9T 63+Xp0+b4nC1DKU+UYHsRgwPmPbmkgYswpZ+EonHA+thGbY4JkkhjZHpDyOSgvghZiXo jjrURVkehIOPmOKZI0cxFcpr7t+UlSPsv4PacgRtXWpb4FEgBZQlnHjaHXa/IDrw/DrG wp+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-transfer-encoding; bh=LhL7MI8LAgs82iuOqajIXAwq87iLOOn9IXlj/aUXUTw=; b=AZiKSoooiiG/4NRJy1R9iQ3WHbf6xwha5guC3YveJRU2+qkSAMfWkRcF6yq7crMBF7 umYMH9F/c41krt3VLxWkIOkRX492cIQubZ8QyRDp60YxiWA9PEEqvobS55LMSTtuoCWH qFzCyu/QORPUj+foj81pNBIbamDMpLwrDsa2/RRkneVj75iNqbK8oy/4fYKCxq2rZcTY FbKDVHDb9sAGpyFXD+Q4kbojeKp/vUAC/KExD1qQkcENU8JBnmD+wKM0Wed32mk+uWiX nD6u3jSB+K7mEyU0Jiqjmf9rN+O03Mt6VTR14Y31ovU11itpL82jXX8XX7AAFH//z745 kPnQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532vmk4kA3DPAZh6TpxH/mQ7GoSZKfedFgkijsLr9gXJOWZH9XCw yeXZE9rN870EiMiPYgH9aIl4c+ye8ebRPof7dBc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyz+BGaCxEw5aRgnuQHsblimmMxgTQlq55DjAO5EfyczEbiUwwLOXfusyyHUWONFv4tGoYLrBeuWmFirRipzG8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:1d83:: with SMTP id h3mr17127925ila.274.1632686922039; Sun, 26 Sep 2021 13:08:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 13:08:29 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Mohit P. Tahiliani" Cc: ECN-Sane Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Ecn-sane] paper idea: praising smaller packets X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 20:08:42 -0000 ... an exploration of smaller mss sizes in response to persistent congestio= n This is in response to two declarative statements in here that I've long disagreed with, involving NOT shrinking the mss, and not trying to do pacing... https://www.bobbriscoe.net/projects/latency/sub-mss-w.pdf OTherwise, for a change, I largely agree with bob. "No amount of AQM twiddling can fix this. The solution has to fix TCP." "nearly all TCP implementations cannot operate at less than two packets per= RTT" --=20 Fixing Starlink's Latencies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xrwgw Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC