From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-il1-x12d.google.com (mail-il1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 683363B29E for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 09:56:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-il1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id a6so3359906ili.9 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 06:56:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZqNGuBVSJD0hEUJ2GQB4qXtTzwtjS3SKpDcNSDqxtoc=; b=kc9kENNjUiVb74cuA3OmqmpCpm8e7cHGbGJC55sSw4KpwiiGDK3xgTPhy4Ob3lAvay Ogasft6dpO2nBkBPlbAc4QqcBqarxmueicWxRNjPT0LQ+dhn7nrEVzytcjPhM7vklbAb KwOs8SOZHPUclyMWpi4AcU6/5kkfdtvwWLj4uC3uiAZ9mSm96I8U21UAAP+BcKK8g3jF IVXO5vEHBPYR8a3dib0zEQpSprqAj2A6//NigbE82Rxy9xxK7pjFlA/mvQ4/6JhU7AJf MMHw+XXcTKoxs/cjIH5xIz7CMyAEQwXAW6oDIZe+i14wYQwTW8Z8u/248WllrpJpYlWa KU5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZqNGuBVSJD0hEUJ2GQB4qXtTzwtjS3SKpDcNSDqxtoc=; b=cnfi13VOaKSslpDZnBnrKyDPm6a+xapkhYt+hXTWVzTilq2j/R1mFm4gj6e3J23IPw 7teHcNZmkXOsrrCXPBNg2n46BMXMGSsM7q9rh7W2HW1UAfyz1Bd9MT7yMAkTuKvw9mLF 5N4b9K7+bT5ER45TAjHLy6VJziDmjsN8JFqqkbI5FdLhFiRb3AKm5VH3NbXMFCqy57uQ kJUe4rA78F77LXDtJ+zWthZAIJcU9+bqHTRuwylXvOGgC3hDSWihzOMahP4di9uNZijs myS1kHZwQJnBwLFrkognzyZKoNnlfG6Wgg4D/yopujEzjy2OxqkIH5ApOtsm3cO6IK4g bfPA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUWLojp+OmA/Uq/khHSC6zEtJM+qtSqp0hRv7LR6ez0brRAy0V/ +rXTufRsOVtGbMVrNh2k8+O1tiIbB1d33Rsbsn0X0fEJ X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy9XdmcH9+5lJf68CB5znWPhBRgGy0x16PRv6FOy1qNecYq8nbl9XF3/bJ+xoCqJS61N4nJA8AT5IYGwOeNRS0= X-Received: by 2002:a92:cd0c:: with SMTP id z12mr8928949iln.45.1576421797437; Sun, 15 Dec 2019 06:56:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 06:56:26 -0800 Message-ID: To: ECN-Sane Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Ecn-sane] bittorrent & ecn X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 14:56:38 -0000 I was kind of wondering if ecn would be used by bittorrent clients and servers. (it's not supported by utp, I think, but when you use tcp, it uses default tcp options) So I loaded up (FOR SCIENCE!) 100+ common torrents with no limits on connections with an inbound fq_codel based shaper in place and ecn enabled on the torrent client. Yep. ecn gets used. How many torrent servers negotiate it? How many clients? (I imagine the entire apple universe does now) qdisc fq_codel 130: parent 1:13 limit 1001p flows 1024 quantum 300 target 5.0ms interval 100.0ms ecn Sent 669116971742 bytes 525750376 pkt (dropped 750412, overlimits 0 requeue= s 0) backlog 288139b 201p requeues 0 maxpacket 1514 drop_overlimit 1047 new_flow_count 65837164 ecn_mark 70963 new_flows_len 0 old_flows_len 73 sleep 60 qdisc fq_codel 130: parent 1:13 limit 1001p flows 1024 quantum 300 target 5.0ms interval 100.0ms ecn Sent 671021262523 bytes 527225759 pkt (dropped 792750, overlimits 0 requeue= s 0) backlog 46605b 39p requeues 0 maxpacket 1514 drop_overlimit 1047 new_flow_count 66286036 ecn_mark 74965 new_flows_len 0 old_flows_len 29 Remarkably my connection stayed pretty darn usable. In fact, I hardly noticed. My streaming radio glitched once. Web was fine, but gmail took a while longer to load all the resources. Taking a packet capture now. This is theoretically the most expensive bit of research I've ever done for the bufferbloat project, in a matter of hours I'll have violated copyright ~800 times, which is about 200m dollars at 250k per. Folk are encouraged to use vpns for torrents nowadays, but I can't see how that would work with libutp and a max rtt of 100ms before it starts to back off. I guess I'll look at that next. Dear RIAA: I promise to delete the files when I'm done, and I'm only capturing headers on the capture. I'd rather someone with the protection of a major university followup on this line of research.... --=20 Make Music, Not War Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-435-0729