From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd32.google.com (mail-io1-xd32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 887453CB37; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 14:54:17 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-io1-xd32.google.com with SMTP id i11so54643ioi.12; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:54:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4t4o4if18it1xdik5/CE6C/KOH59bGa10yn18mqgqpA=; b=GptiQIDtdxkQXGSfY4CZ80/TAK3nS8cUifr/EId243uiVIHnGyG2ssmqAZMuj5I6BG 6W136RJURFewzeG9+YWaUdMMj8d5y/VOwf6ui2ZwwjSsk9G2EkGRy7GQmV23sMYK6wOF 8afLzaQp4jMp9Hc7H0rTHOuwB5Aq2vacwctaB0OhyyHPJmsFtEXMmPCrh7lhJ07ge0AS /Hws+E+Lye8b6pQqKuE2TLmpSJGLl5FCFSIxv5xUh9C6ZYguy0ir0mpuimyudu/CH8ho 4Wo7otAGYI2eO4cIW2cXQVzYiKWRTmlvfmyf4v+ona3YQ0yCQRiA34Gc+tikytMPwmCg b6DA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4t4o4if18it1xdik5/CE6C/KOH59bGa10yn18mqgqpA=; b=UWApQa+XUspRXxjvac0BXvyz/+/qfCsOjYC57ZgfpZ/AB21aaiVqkXnzkxcYgSF7RR j/QcMVpPmHWl1B00+WyvJoeqj1meyGjJhNXKZwoCepVwsf2imJZSUj0SThjLBlYTILux h0QANvu2aJOLwvO8Fa6bl1SPSQ9uGUfJx0+IivfA2GoU9yfxFdpZxEF2nzhPk4k0SoHe /MeeDtshjV9wYHdMy64Rdv0PMRqN/9hIyG+2sGhB+jquyaEgyvKBUL8olvmUAEuO2s4b ovtCdJg+WMIUyTBdOEm4wXhsMorMO+b5p7RtggkDbe7cuSmRQXdwytIkLiFFl0Xs3QuL iuag== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXBKYI1OpIrsbyZw3DHq/cUkOJldoKilqaslOcng08xyJLiqgUC NK7nyXQe7zDdh1r/TDtYRe8a1ejTknQhZV6BqvI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyG5J79TZ2ekv1wDPddLg6hPuVK8a3RpEmEdjBrSl6EDR6kr53W1mif2zwZxitaK4XKq/Z1mxm9K8tOD5uctOU= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:e008:: with SMTP id z8mr3825155iog.246.1576094056830; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:54:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 11:54:05 -0800 Message-ID: To: Prateesh Goyal Cc: bloat , ECN-Sane , Hari Balakrishnan , Mohammad Alizadeh Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] abc congestion control on time varying wireless links X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 19:54:17 -0000 On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 11:19 AM Prateesh Goyal wrote= : > > Adding Hari, Mohammad > > On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 2:17 PM Dave Taht wrote: >> >> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1905.03429.pdf >> >> the principal item of interest is section 3.1.2 where the accelerate >> and brake concepts and math are described. What we have now is a string of conflicts of interest over the values of the ecn bits, in part based on the characteristics of the underlying link technologies. The DC folk want a multibit more immediate signal, for which L4S is kind of targetted, (and SCE also applies). I haven't seen any data on how well dctcp or SCE -style can work on wildly RTT varying links as yet, although it's been pitched at the LTE direction, not at wifi. The abc concept hasn't been tried in a DC-like environment, and while it shows some good results for both the LTE and wifi simulations, was not compared against the fq_codel based solution currently in linux wifi, nor against the minstrel rate controller. I have plenty of data on how fq_codel + RFC3168 ecn currently works on wifi, I like to think it's pretty good, but it's still pretty slow to respond with just RFC3168 or drop. this is yet another one of those cases where unified sets of benchmarks would help. And then there's, like, the actual deployment on actual devices... I just did a string of benchmarks, tethered to my new moto 6e phone. You saturate the download, and nearly ALL other traffic (icmp and udp) in the upstream direction, gets starved out. I just did a string of benchmarks on my new LTE >> >> -- >> Make Music, Not War >> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht >> CTO, TekLibre, LLC >> http://www.teklibre.com >> Tel: 1-831-435-0729 --=20 Make Music, Not War Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-435-0729