From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt0-x230.google.com (mail-qt0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFBB03CB35 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 11:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x230.google.com with SMTP id j7-v6so5429442qtp.2 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 08:13:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CXlo89ExdcCRaOsS7jcGuR7Ca/zTc8sgY/8izwAgYNk=; b=LCTuiRM6Gk8CC53G/745lJ4UjO40hupIsnrxGrwahRmgFtrmjQtv4gupr/xYcpXesm rlq7lg+WMsQaHsjEA1xLWOkU7AVbZFZOH009erSUtSMW9h37ouTXP7mIXLJNzFIicZgN dt64j59aCyioDOPIbrkPwdT847fIo3DEttP5Nv6oYGXDBVf1c34ULY9NGYrmYuOlV5Ru 39U9ZkYrL3BpkW425XL1v4LBQAEl4hRQW/VO2rW5BiWEM9p7VVZICiCd+LXa3y5u7uvC W+F4Vn5wf3a5tgU+lbUXnh82eLe/jKPEMYEEGSFcbpmDakNqJgYO0ZKhPjqCAEU+RB/6 eoeg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=CXlo89ExdcCRaOsS7jcGuR7Ca/zTc8sgY/8izwAgYNk=; b=Y1uTaV9yGB9I+gzY0/dV3foQHirQf2M6R9RVoqfItn57ywk2EJkoiIbdJVP7NLyDq/ S4qaGopOtU1QSdIUICC5zrcpeR8Tg11QtIWIotuFAGNTNdJ2VI3CT4tkwl/1Bow/V/FS IYGj5FlNS2nMahTJmFj1+GjRB/IVSyI56mCkUrFwQZwGOMhnkWXOt6HmLyomRu9ZICPl CgjK4lwKXke3bmdjwBpYbKN8Xmy+MmqJ9Z3BbcV4LVBz8ieYkGsC1E2WTrkwzkwpJwLI RRRwT4eWsSmsVrARx+ZxnKjGyDFByPgQYNSEfdGctgAlnD0SBx7UbXViTJf3HaoRBmzp xdhA== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51AQ4Un+XNYi+FAoAPdniFao5vQ3jv5OgySKXEhoxmvca80+3HOl j6pKdggNhfe8v0IF3a85Wp0ZB14l5VevGuXXRT7sXl9+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdY49HVS8BtoimiawLTXlbexUSJImwrcnPj7M3aeioWFUz7G4tNud0L5/A3lSCHiIEj2OYX4ytx/FfumgszGb88= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:21c3:: with SMTP id 3-v6mr24990235qtz.171.1537370012050; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 08:13:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 08:13:20 -0700 Message-ID: To: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Ecn-sane] straw men X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 15:13:32 -0000 At one level, my hope in starting this project is that once enough researchers realize that ECN is now ubiquitous in apple's products, all kinds of new ideas and research will emerge and we won't have to do any more work. :) In my case, though, I rather wanted to promote a skeptical look at the edge cases. A quick look at things like /etc/services or the long list of ethertypes https://www.iana.org/assignments/ieee-802-numbers/ieee-802-nu= mbers.xhtml#ieee-802-numbers-1 is sufficient cause to worry. I'm pretty good with short, ringing phrases, and hereby give away most of these potential paper titles away to whoever wants to use them. I'm going to talk to two or three of these in the coming weeks, but to at least get the list out of my system: Where ECN is unfair When ECN is evil ECN along the edge ECN as an attack vector DCTCP along asymmetric paths Towards making ecn generally deployable Fair queuing failures ack-filtering in practice ECN has mass! ecn over wifi syn/ack limiting as rate control self congestion as aqm ecn on alternative protocols sch_cake and blue ECN should be an earlier congestion signal than loss? Mosh's reaction to ecn ECN outbound on residential links GSO considered harmful Making tcp go slower makes it faster Damage from an ecn enabled DDOS FQ is not enough ECN on meshy protocols ECN vs ISIS --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-669-226-2619