From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-xc34.google.com (mail-yw1-xc34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2D3F3B2A4 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yw1-xc34.google.com with SMTP id k125so8362993ywe.5 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 07:20:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=krose.org; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jrraZmcYVwTr5HgBSAhZ/QgjnAiFLJZNqtG/aCbMRkQ=; b=QrMBKQlI1S9r93PpuTmnOIpX12Xt71ZU+nnpocx/s6PaU8++YA37r3s3qX8hMgJc4E mtTW7K+Nt98XxggCyWC8kq7QHVWhF9LpQHo9I0CXjnAedJceVLCyj3w5Ps0U4ovTle77 j7Pfcr/d/pQgIzNI8tZZeneSiTQKN637cUSfM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jrraZmcYVwTr5HgBSAhZ/QgjnAiFLJZNqtG/aCbMRkQ=; b=Sm93+wAQXK/ECvi4RqKMA5eY/nKP/5LlhXq61YIvisGhrLrRMaQqgA1tGmlmmSFbZX SYeSF55ZJQUCXN5oe/iM48KqC7FSrnIGkGFe/rhV5E1k4xo/FpfiXnjeqE9P6W5LwNN4 EUs8tBtVSXB8L/+2f7xDNRkCuObCxfPzYmveUkc3RNpx2Nt9kSceNEy4fhQfNauDNbre 84D6TKX/lkGFuZ9aXz9bEPPnaCTX2Zx6Zr9Cd+QWcZ5HKHrpHqJR4uPPnKWuvyTsK0VL yjPU8I+Mt9ESMfecl/tAx9PWSFn7mh4L+s8f005QkJC52eUqj9rdGN7h/ocBJyjfHDBS qp2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXcV20JDZnrvoIX/RQbJm7yafKQJTMeLnPJSB6KU9+c3xrhKy4/ VW3UnYeINd5TCHWWUgrZ+97m55YuIeMmRVUDHHZTqA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyW4hQLZ1UsARObQmFPnvq4kCYhBYTfq9Ib37qZhqFJ3gShF4UHTOorRz2jur8aBX/s6SFTy3fpLpcF31eCdeI= X-Received: by 2002:a81:4786:: with SMTP id u128mr69408265ywa.43.1560954040156; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 07:20:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <350f8dd5-65d4-d2f3-4d65-784c0379f58c@bobbriscoe.net> In-Reply-To: <350f8dd5-65d4-d2f3-4d65-784c0379f58c@bobbriscoe.net> From: Kyle Rose Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:20:29 -0400 Message-ID: To: Bob Briscoe Cc: "Holland, Jake" , "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" , tsvwg IETF list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000131831058badefe1" X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:22:40 -0400 Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] per-flow scheduling X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:20:41 -0000 --000000000000131831058badefe1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 10:13 AM Bob Briscoe wrote: > Jake, all, > > You may not be aware of my long history of concern about how per-flow > scheduling within endpoints and networks will limit the Internet in > future. I find per-flow scheduling a violation of the e2e principle in > such a profound way - the dynamic choice of the spacing between packets > - that most people don't even associate it with the e2e principle. > > I detected that you were talking about FQ in a way that might have > assumed my concern with it was just about implementation complexity. If > you (or anyone watching) is not aware of the architectural concerns with > per-flow scheduling, I can enumerate them. > I would certainly be interested in reading more about these concerns. Even a reference that I can read out-of-band would be fine. Thanks, Bob. Kyle --000000000000131831058badefe1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 10:13 AM Bob Briscoe = <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> wrot= e:
Jake, all,
You may not be aware of my long history of concern about how per-flow
scheduling within endpoints and networks will limit the Internet in
future. I find per-flow scheduling a violation of the e2e principle in
such a profound way - the dynamic choice of the spacing between packets - that most people don't even associate it with the e2e principle.

I detected that you were talking about FQ in a way that might have
assumed my concern with it was just about implementation complexity. If you (or anyone watching) is not aware of the architectural concerns with per-flow scheduling, I can enumerate them.

I would certainly be interested in reading= more about these concerns. Even a reference that I can read out-of-band wo= uld be fine. Thanks, Bob.

Kyle

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