From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x236.google.com (mail-lj1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D50813B2A4 for ; Tue, 6 Aug 2019 11:28:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x236.google.com with SMTP id m23so82514940lje.12 for ; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 08:28:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=LDVNk5CIszTLYhXZlWoUlmNKVSzg0p4CiHpvy4vDb24=; b=GMYDW3D10wwq0MOkCrjYXwK7xeV0eKa0TDUSjtcTpZoOVTaluXkgqRqjgrmqwr2gW7 U5p/+3ztaUmyVUmAZU9pI08mXDaQJFUjYxSBMFN+4KS6qtXTf+lDMBworKxeYEYaYpvj t+UQnWFxeRXaUfYk6N3c/oOOxA0CofBC1dUsGLLtLwY88O41M+z0n5Dsq5k8CXdEg1T8 UjfpABgj3wFEMJfTV0fcOjh+9KtFn1v2b9l8Q8sPxmTUu+sem9tIUFbHvCyYn8kGHqzB DayZ4aRXFHwf0gb/BUxbzuqCeTGrM5TX19mDFoyyVVFBfYXHG9fHpkxfrllGJ4l5Q4RN eGpg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=LDVNk5CIszTLYhXZlWoUlmNKVSzg0p4CiHpvy4vDb24=; b=YsCv2So2Ub+trQX4Sn0wD28llvGa/8v6/UwEMMlirFU0wf9Syk16gJP2o+bGxbbls/ pSq0cP8rxnJ1mP9drPCs/Zz7y0emMKsglvdnKMwXlR3vw5i4JiW5/IdMC5/gHIwDsm64 FQ9KWHt572O1aIksJwOJs39+h12EU4SrZucKuYwNPXn4pY/+zrxgaPSN3ug2uCzd8GEt XCE1ga1wHCij7a463vQ8MacE75/X1e5OM8mU/bpQ4R/5EyxfwDi+mycget/zcKMGf/+C dGgwInc1MIVsGTvTKCob/oA2CbiY55ET611hSvQofMtUDpcW0Mm8aDYYJltBf/X7nURL VzDg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVszotkRDdIASKD0GFymEf82eT/l2vPlvHDu8R4hsSOrvZl7BiF HNdKFOK8wjQFodKq5ebkEyk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz7++ILXp7EDkOZAC9Vu/eq+WI0NLYJ3CThuouLYgu/U/lS7XorfZBUYBpLWJyUiU/HtBN61g== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:2993:: with SMTP id p19mr2037147ljp.202.1565105279816; Tue, 06 Aug 2019 08:27:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-237-193-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.237.193]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 189sm17589130lfa.0.2019.08.06.08.27.58 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 06 Aug 2019 08:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2019 18:27:57 +0300 Cc: swmike@swm.pp.se, tcpm@ietf.org, ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net, tsvwg@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <24f7b15a-129f-ca44-60e0-32c7d23eadf4@bobbriscoe.net> <0E44351D-2520-45AD-A10A-8E2FFE186722@gmx.de> <20C58AE1-CAC4-480F-8E80-1F5A09ED53EA@gmx.de> <3AB4DBF2-C0B3-45EE-8E82-E2D337EA346E@gmx.de> To: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] ECN CE that was ECT(0) incorrectly classified as L4S X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2019 15:28:01 -0000 > On 6 Aug, 2019, at 5:34 pm, = wrote: >=20 > Public peerings and not well dimensioned networks may suffer from = regular congestion. I'm not sure to which extent technical standards can = significantly improve service quality in that situation. IP transport = must work as good as possible also in such a situation, of course.=20 Obviously the application of AQM will not magically improve total = throughput. What it can do, however, is reduce latency and packet loss, = and thereby improve perceived reliability of the service. It may even = improve goodput for the same throughput - an increase in efficiency. This is especially true under emergency overload conditions, which is = when people most desperately want a functioning network, but it is most = likely to collapse under the strain. Often a disaster will incidentally = knock out some proportion of network infrastructure in the area, turning = a previously well-proportioned network into an under-proportioned one, = simultaneously with a sharp increase in demand as people try to find out = what is going on or communicate with friends and relatives, and = emergency response teams also try to coordinate their essential work. So IMO networks should be designed to work well when congested, even = when they are also designed to never *be* congested. Technical = specifications already exist and are well tested for this purpose. = Having them built in and turned on from the factory would be a great = step forward. - Jonathan Morton=