From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qk1-x732.google.com (mail-qk1-x732.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::732]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D00273CB35 for ; Sun, 12 May 2019 19:02:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qk1-x732.google.com with SMTP id z6so6083863qkl.10 for ; Sun, 12 May 2019 16:02:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fugue-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=5LzVS5wu9T8AFVBcRVVDSYqb55nuuBCHc40PKREbb50=; b=n/Ph8Mv3kNpER4TOMrT1IKcRUSkSER8FZy0kp7D/mOuMaO/mIK8p1W9+7DGmjaAHtc N6Ky8Mm/1Py+Wrsjh4JLbT0LpCUU/iKVjqrzM6ih8w7FkNw9BQbuMA/X8Ks4p64PjWiV 4DENWrVxmnqPrLZD/npM993iuV13tO1pqkQS2dHDqFQ5HW+thsG0Y67Xb0KuykQ+GcNO J/LC+BcEVdwuzJrFpDCWojWjfYJFuny+zQWqX3hCVn3y1Dwd/cB9IW7mbh+KdYjQD/Ms dLBJBN0u0xiz+boLxGIMY7JH2MWNnUjr1pqW/BukqZZRzSouN3czWzC03beeO9B0cJfp PlCw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=5LzVS5wu9T8AFVBcRVVDSYqb55nuuBCHc40PKREbb50=; b=lgvfBfA0IMnjKwnHoVIXCJDgw7FrJl9taKYUgB3PJyhiDzrq7Bn4x7fJxSqOdhKrNV +3nJgEz29WESnNbeaSh835P71gb50Wqo7cByJ4BagrYrV9j6ADhaiW2kGai96MjZHsyc QNZVOfcJWlS0ohjLqAjl+gDQHenSDSBAxd0Xds+bmktncOeH7qdVh/H0oWCtb79F3S5s 9u9uuM7JRHUm+wSkDlpLFIT3C+YiAtso5AhTDMojvinYch9d1QQurJSANaA8D4XkOQNb YXOXEgVsMzIX53hzxfIgjf+ORWepYPw2nY4tEqg0y883qzxkuwkw9W5S3P27620QwIEH Zofw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVwt9ayRWcOvqMS7epOdq4SxvDJj46hbgPk7pLKR5ySbggWZFlL 6qzOBeiQYeJZcjhe7ueGRbn2sA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwrSHnTF7TEZ7Cxy+ZOFap+8Egx86QDyvYv1XCAOPH0DUCfE7xvZGxiEfDnfA7w+t/OsWhx5A== X-Received: by 2002:ae9:f117:: with SMTP id k23mr18667531qkg.344.1557702128363; Sun, 12 May 2019 16:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.100.13] (c-73-186-137-119.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [73.186.137.119]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y14sm7359561qth.48.2019.05.12.16.02.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 12 May 2019 16:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9DAC453E-E879-4CE8-8AF0-640141210A33 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Ted Lemon X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16F155) In-Reply-To: <617F1DC0-E891-4548-8BD0-56054ED64E6E@bogus.com> Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 19:02:05 -0400 Cc: Joe Touch , Magnus Westerlund , IETF Discussion Mailing List , ECN-Sane , The IESG , tsvwg IETF list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <4C8193B9-586C-4ED9-B01E-6BA37071600A@fugue.com> <617F1DC0-E891-4548-8BD0-56054ED64E6E@bogus.com> To: Joel Jaeggli X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 14 May 2019 12:00:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] travel funds for ietf for the next SCE talk? X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 23:02:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail-9DAC453E-E879-4CE8-8AF0-640141210A33 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is the precise distinction I was making. I didn=E2=80=99t pay. Someone p= aid, but not me. It=E2=80=99s amazing that you were willing to make it work o= ut of pocket, but that=E2=80=99s just not scalable.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On May 12, 2019, at 6:27 PM, Joel Jaeggli wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On May 10, 2019, at 07:00, Ted Lemon wrote: >>=20 >>> On May 10, 2019, at 9:47 AM, Joe Touch wrote: >>> The only people who get a fully free ride that I know of are the IEEE C= omsoc Board.=20 >>=20 >> Hm. I=E2=80=99ve never paid to attend IETF. Granted, this is not becaus= e IETF comped me, but because I was fortunate enough to have an employer who= could afford to send me at no cost to me. >>=20 >> This model unfortunately doesn=E2=80=99t work for open source developers w= ho are not on the payroll of a company with deep pockets. >>=20 >=20 > That's an odd definition of having never paid. At the point of registrati= on, you either provided a credit card or requested an invoice. The nominal c= ost of your involvement in the IETF borne on the part of you or your employe= r(s) is no doubt considerable, especially during your term on the IESG when t= he time commitment was also considerable.. =20 >=20 > For most of the 4 years I spent on the IESG I paid the costs of attending= out of my own pocket. I did that, because it was what i signed up for, beca= use it needed to get done and because I believed there was value in the work= being done in the operations and management area. Back as an individual co= ntributor I come when I have something to do and some way to pay for it othe= rwise I wouldn't be there. >=20 > joel >=20 --Apple-Mail-9DAC453E-E879-4CE8-8AF0-640141210A33 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is the precise distinction I was makin= g. I didn=E2=80=99t pay. Someone paid, but not me. It=E2=80=99s amazing that= you were willing to make it work out of pocket, but that=E2=80=99s just not= scalable. 

Sent from= my iPhone

On May 12, 2019, at 6:27 PM, Joel Jaegg= li <joelja@bogus.com> wrote:


On May 10, 20= 19, at 07:00, Ted Lemon <m= ellon@fugue.com> wrote:

=
On May 10, 2019, at 9:= 47 AM, Joe Touch <touc= h@strayalpha.com> wrote:
The only  people who get a fully free rid= e that I know of are the IEEE Comsoc Board. 

Hm.  I=E2=80=99ve never pai= d to attend IETF.  Granted, this is not because IETF comped me, but bec= ause I was fortunate enough to have an employer who could afford to send me a= t no cost to me.

T= his model unfortunately doesn=E2=80=99t work for open source developers who a= re not on the payroll of a company with deep pockets.
<= br class=3D"">

That's an odd definition of having never paid.  At the point of r= egistration, you either provided a credit card or requested an invoice. The n= ominal cost of your involvement in the IETF borne on the part of you or your= employer(s) is no doubt considerable, especially during your term on the IE= SG when the time commitment was also considerable..  

For most  of the 4 years I spen= t on the IESG I paid the costs of attending out of my own pocket. I did that= , because it was what i signed up for, because it needed to get done and bec= ause I believed there was value in the work being done in the operations and= management area.  Back as an individual contributor I come when I have= something to do and some way to pay for it otherwise I wouldn't be there.

joel

= --Apple-Mail-9DAC453E-E879-4CE8-8AF0-640141210A33--