Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet
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From: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
To: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>
Cc: "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>,
	Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>,
	 "Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com>,
	 "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net"
	<ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net>,  Dave Taht <dave@taht.net>,
	 "De Schepper,
	Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <koen.de_schepper@nokia-bell-labs.com>
Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] Compatibility with singlw queue RFC3168 AQMs
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 12:06:08 +0200 (CEST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1908071202570.21828@uplift.swm.pp.se> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1908071036090.21828@uplift.swm.pp.se>

On Wed, 7 Aug 2019, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:

> I realise this is problematic and gets in the way of progress but the 
> Internet is a messy place and we need to do mitigation of pathological 
> cases where new and old don't always play nice together.

I forgot to also mention that I still would like to see more testing of 
the benefits of removing the ordering requirement on some traffic. Having 
been exposed to different medias over the past 25 years I've seen numerous 
Head-of-Line blocking problems my fair share of time and removing this 
ordering requirement would free up some medias to deliver some packets 
even though other packets are being re-transmitted and delivered later.

I also encourage if we can reach overall consensus that transports should 
take into account that packets can be re-ordered and what timescales would 
be acceptable for this to happen (1ms? 10ms? 100ms? Even more? Less? Not 
at all?)

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se

  reply	other threads:[~2019-08-07 10:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-06-05  0:01 [Ecn-sane] Comments on L4S drafts Holland, Jake
2019-06-07 18:07 ` Bob Briscoe
2019-06-14 17:39   ` Holland, Jake
2019-06-19 14:11     ` Bob Briscoe
2019-07-10 13:55       ` Holland, Jake
2019-06-14 20:10   ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Luca Muscariello
2019-06-14 21:44     ` Dave Taht
2019-06-15 20:26       ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] CoIt'smments " David P. Reed
2019-06-19  1:15     ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] Comments " Bob Briscoe
2019-06-19  1:33       ` Dave Taht
2019-06-19  4:24       ` Holland, Jake
2019-06-19 13:02         ` Luca Muscariello
2019-07-04 11:54           ` Bob Briscoe
2019-07-04 12:24             ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-04 13:43               ` De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
2019-07-04 14:03                 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-04 17:54                   ` Bob Briscoe
2019-07-05  8:26                     ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-05  6:46                   ` De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
2019-07-05  8:51                     ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-08 10:26                       ` De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
2019-07-08 20:55                         ` Holland, Jake
2019-07-10  0:10                           ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-10  9:00                           ` De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
2019-07-10 13:14                             ` Dave Taht
2019-07-10 17:32                               ` De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
2019-07-17 22:40                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-19  9:06                               ` De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
2019-07-19 15:37                                 ` Dave Taht
2019-07-19 18:33                                   ` Wesley Eddy
2019-07-19 20:03                                     ` Dave Taht
2019-07-19 22:09                                       ` Wesley Eddy
2019-07-19 23:42                                         ` Dave Taht
2019-07-24 16:21                                           ` Dave Taht
2019-07-19 20:06                                     ` Black, David
2019-07-19 20:44                                       ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-19 22:03                                         ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-20 21:02                                           ` Dave Taht
2019-07-21 11:53                                           ` Bob Briscoe
2019-07-21 15:30                                             ` [Ecn-sane] Hackathon tests Dave Taht
2019-07-21 15:33                                             ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] Comments on L4S drafts Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-21 16:00                                             ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-21 16:12                                               ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-22 18:15                                               ` De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
2019-07-22 18:33                                                 ` Dave Taht
2019-07-22 19:48                                                 ` Pete Heist
2019-07-25 16:14                                                   ` De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
2019-07-26 13:10                                                     ` Pete Heist
2019-07-26 15:05                                                       ` [Ecn-sane] The state of l4s, bbrv2, sce? Dave Taht
2019-07-26 15:32                                                         ` Dave Taht
2019-07-26 15:37                                                         ` Neal Cardwell
2019-07-26 15:45                                                           ` Dave Taht
2019-07-23 10:33                                                 ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] Comments on L4S drafts Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-21 12:30                                       ` Bob Briscoe
2019-07-21 16:08                                         ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-21 19:14                                           ` Bob Briscoe
2019-07-21 20:48                                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-25 20:51                                               ` Bob Briscoe
2019-07-25 21:17                                                 ` Bob Briscoe
2019-07-25 22:00                                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-26 10:20                                                     ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] Compatibility with singlw queue RFC3168 AQMs Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-26 14:10                                                       ` Black, David
2019-07-26 16:06                                                         ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-26 19:58                                                           ` Black, David
2019-07-26 21:34                                                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-26 16:15                                                         ` Holland, Jake
2019-07-26 20:07                                                           ` Black, David
2019-07-26 23:40                                                             ` Jonathan Morton
2019-08-07  8:41                                                               ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-08-07 10:06                                                                 ` Mikael Abrahamsson [this message]
2019-08-07 11:57                                                                   ` Jeremy Harris
2019-08-07 12:03                                                                     ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-08-07 12:14                                                                       ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-08-07 12:25                                                                         ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2019-08-07 12:34                                                                       ` Jeremy Harris
2019-08-07 12:49                                                                         ` Mikael Abrahamsson
     [not found]                                         ` <5D34803D.50501@erg.abdn.ac.uk>
2019-07-21 16:43                                           ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] Comments on L4S drafts Black, David
2019-07-21 12:30                                       ` Scharf, Michael
2019-07-19 21:49                                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-22 16:28                                   ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2019-07-19 17:59                                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-05  9:48             ` Luca Muscariello
2019-07-04 13:45         ` Bob Briscoe
2019-07-10 17:03           ` Holland, Jake

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