From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net (mta3.ics-il.net [65.182.164.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 817DE3CB39; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 09:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7661B80095; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:38:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id i4oYghCAwy6H; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:38:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF3580112; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:38:22 -0500 (CDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net 8BF3580112 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ics-il.net; s=C00B5EF2-1A13-11E6-9265-5A85BB0A090D; t=1697377102; bh=nqxg92xbS/Ez5SW3ySnC13k+Hg5g7iSaEBXNPCFMqrQ=; h=Date:From:To:Message-ID:MIME-Version; b=ACCm/mjqG85EZB2nX1V3PkCG1vBdCqGfOJ7bId1b5Lf1GmV8N4/ug7qzRFls1fML0 uJTuXIPB06C4KQGWpPBPdW+OQg7LtVwoz1Merz3M7HeV4U3x4ue03JmlRSkdvJd0KU j0PGULc9ILNnON1AZY160a2u/rZVZgqFdBzMiZOg= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net Received: from zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id wri_xvLXodCR; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:38:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: from zimbra8-mailstore1.ics-il.net (Zimbra8-MailStore1.ics-il.net [10.1.8.63]) by zimbra8-mta1.ics-il.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1863A80111; Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:38:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 08:38:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Hammett To: Dave Taht Cc: Network Neutrality is back! =?utf-8?Q?Let=C2=B4s?= make the technical aspects heard this time! , libreqos , NANOG Message-ID: <1241680682.954.1697377096485.JavaMail.mhammett@Thunderfuck2> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_953_1827565819.1697377096484" X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.8.15_GA_4508 (Zimbra Desktop/7.3.1_13063_Windows) Thread-Topic: transit and peering costs projections Thread-Index: MWuSsPHknudN+futmDf4ZJhQPyjJMQ== X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 09:49:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] transit and peering costs projections X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 13:38:24 -0000 ------=_Part_953_1827565819.1697377096484 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've seen some attempts to put an IX at every corner, but I don't think tho= se efforts will be overly successful.=20 It's still difficult to gain sufficient scale in NFL-sized cities. Big cont= ent won't join without big eyeballs (well, not the national-level guys beca= use they almost never will). Big eyeballs just can't be bothered. Small guy= s don't move the needle enough.=20 -----=20 Mike Hammett=20 Intelligent Computing Solutions=20 http://www.ics-il.com=20 Midwest-IX=20 http://www.midwest-ix.com=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Taht" =20 To: "Network Neutrality is back! Let=C2=B4s make the technical aspects hear= d this time!" , "libreqos" , "NANOG" =20 Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2023 6:01:54 PM=20 Subject: transit and peering costs projections=20 This set of trendlines was very interesting. Unfortunately the data=20 stops in 2015. Does anyone have more recent data?=20 https://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-= Projected.php=20 I believe a gbit circuit that an ISP can resell still runs at about=20 $900 - $1.4k (?) in the usa? How about elsewhere?=20 ...=20 I am under the impression that many IXPs remain very successful,=20 states without them suffer, and I also find the concept of doing micro=20 IXPs at the city level, appealing, and now achievable with cheap gear.=20 Finer grained cross connects between telco and ISP and IXP would lower=20 latencies across town quite hugely...=20 PS I hear ARIN is planning on dropping the price for, and bundling 3=20 BGP AS numbers at a time, as of the end of this year, also.=20 --=20 Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.htm= l=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos=20 ------=_Part_953_1827565819.1697377096484 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; colo= r: #000000'>I've seen some attempts to put an IX at every corner, but I don= 't think those efforts will be overly successful.

It's still difficu= lt to gain sufficient scale in NFL-sized cities. Big content won't join wit= hout big eyeballs (well, not the national-level guys because they almost ne= ver will). Big eyeballs just can't be bothered. Small guys don't move the n= eedle enough.



-----
Mike Ham= mett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Mid= west-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com

<= hr id=3D"zwchr">
From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
To: "Ne= twork Neutrality is back! Let=C2=B4s make the technical aspects heard this = time!" <nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net>, "libreqos" <libreqos@lists= .bufferbloat.net>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>
Sent: Satur= day, October 14, 2023 6:01:54 PM
Subject: transit and peering cos= ts projections

This set of trendlines was very interesting. Unfortun= ately the data
stops in 2015. Does anyone have more recent data?

= https://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And-= Projected.php

I believe a gbit circuit that an ISP can resell still = runs at about
$900 - $1.4k (?) in the usa? How about elsewhere?

.= ..

I am under the impression that many IXPs remain very successful,<= br>states without them suffer, and I also find the concept of doing microIXPs at the city level, appealing, and now achievable with cheap gear.Finer grained cross connects between telco and ISP and IXP would lower
= latencies across town quite hugely...

PS I hear ARIN is planning on = dropping the price for, and bundling 3
BGP AS numbers at a time, as of t= he end of this year, also.



--
Oct 30: https://netdevconf= .info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, L= ibreQos

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