From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-x112b.google.com (mail-yw1-x112b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7FD33CB37; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 20:25:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yw1-x112b.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-5a7a80a96dbso37202657b3.0; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 17:25:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697329539; x=1697934339; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=pFrCMQlpnAGIOcULcCaxfgIaRKbruHz6bR1zf17C0nQ=; b=hM5Q6hVQzv5iRh/X6tWLIiJsPFK500c9eqS+VvG6pENoSxk0dAGIrK6vwb7+jGhExZ gfdCS6J0OVEzK7UNkVSv8jtqbrUS8eIO4M7m7ptO6J5Gco2njSaUvkk50+tJPFzBWRhl 8uR/1i0wuDjkyggke7cxYuB+KxI1u2a2D1RIoDqZ2QximYFugCoGep2su4LrlGvQM+/k M7Y2aVQhRoU46fU3trU8Y5sU7NwqTFb+hWdcBwP1ASFpBLDJGPhWFkNDIgfJ8z7Qosqv HvvziSV1hsINO93vBKZKoRVTq4GDnzVZnDqwBePwmCPxjIuJSV39cDtwDG8uj1NRediB wqhg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697329539; x=1697934339; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=pFrCMQlpnAGIOcULcCaxfgIaRKbruHz6bR1zf17C0nQ=; b=SLIQ/u5lCpNNfrTV0ydzYsK6JU1xQVSJd7mFpSsR7Ktdp3rQIWAUCzMqZKG7Mrax+M IYh10lCwdwH6dwmTR6clEBbRsO4dS10X50XTFeedRDUDY5Xdam+OSYalokEqDpshIJPZ T9iyo9Uan2KKBJ5dRUcoUjWnlWajUUCBDYn6NKP1KKJCvsTPgZv0i/YsVtKO0xkCdArp sK3BrCmBDiHEE/CpV/n/D/uR0rJw5+2xibJl47kgKLdkvw7R77qzWvpwn7LG8bDtU1rg 1ZxPfwXL5D8KRNq9OzVyKIRGSAnTeIXgm/O4fSFkFjlYcuxCH5kziyfUVoyqSH1aTG6t vnTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwvTKPttR9A8X8+fwM4Ls+rlo7CQyTCvOu5vmB5IdHlO+Zj84Wj pg52pr/kzn7pO517CmTyDWdQhQ7ssoSSmQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGiCKbfvmk0zDK+ADaOCW68+Jgv7Spw0E+IPiZgkYK/JRYFnW3LPiOpm78w4pWJqLLLZe8cNA== X-Received: by 2002:a81:91ca:0:b0:5a8:1767:1fef with SMTP id i193-20020a8191ca000000b005a817671fefmr1871981ywg.9.1697329538814; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 17:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2600:1700:2c58:d080:5f:a757:82ee:3c4a]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r192-20020a0de8c9000000b0059b20231f1dsm947553ywe.121.2023.10.14.17.25.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 14 Oct 2023 17:25:38 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Dave Cohen Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 20:25:27 -0400 Message-Id: <186FD2C2-68D1-4DB5-901A-78EFDEC4344D@gmail.com> References: Cc: libreqos , NANOG , Dave Taht In-Reply-To: To: =?utf-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back!_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_techni?= =?utf-8?Q?cal_aspects_heard_this_time!?= X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (20G81) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 21:11:51 -0400 Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] [NNagain] transit and peering costs projections X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 00:25:39 -0000 I=E2=80=99m a couple years removed from dealing with this on the provider si= de but the focus has shifted rapidly to adding core capacity and large capac= ity ports to the extent that smaller capacity ports like 1 Gbps aren=E2=80=99= t going to see much more price compression. Cost per bit will come down at h= igher tiers but there simply isn=E2=80=99t enough focus at lower levels at t= he hardware providers to afford carriers more price compression at 1 Gbps, e= ven 10 Gbps. I would expect further price compression in access costs but no= t really in transit costs below 10 Gbps.=20 In general I agree that IXs continue to proliferate relative to quantity, th= roughput and geographic reach, almost to the degree that mainland Europe has= been covered for years. In my home market of Atlanta, I=E2=80=99m aware of a= t least four IXs that have been established here or entered the market in th= e last three years - there were only two major ones prior to that. This is a= net positive for a wide variety of reasons but I don=E2=80=99t think it=E2=80= =99s created much of an impact in terms of pulling down transit prices. Ther= e are a few reasons for this, but primarily because that growth hasn=E2=80=99= t really displaced transit demand (at least in my view) and has really been m= ore about a relatively stable set of IX participants creating more resilienc= y and driving other performance improvements in that leg of the peering ecos= ystem.=20 Dave Cohen craetdave@gmail.com > On Oct 14, 2023, at 7:02 PM, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFThis set of trendlines was very interesting. Unfortunately the da= ta > stops in 2015. Does anyone have more recent data? >=20 > https://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical-And= -Projected.php >=20 > I believe a gbit circuit that an ISP can resell still runs at about > $900 - $1.4k (?) in the usa? How about elsewhere? >=20 > ... >=20 > I am under the impression that many IXPs remain very successful, > states without them suffer, and I also find the concept of doing micro > IXPs at the city level, appealing, and now achievable with cheap gear. > Finer grained cross connects between telco and ISP and IXP would lower > latencies across town quite hugely... >=20 > PS I hear ARIN is planning on dropping the price for, and bundling 3 > BGP AS numbers at a time, as of the end of this year, also. >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.ht= ml > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain