From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDBBD3B29E; Mon, 14 Nov 2022 03:41:14 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1668415272; bh=UjaTur6IoC80xCgqEvf69FRmPvcTGOyQjUQoRv9uSy0=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:CC:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=ceu5Ea5gUcJgfZ0/pippq2zWciUGgNIu0WaG8/umzrm/gtebjvLrKY5RUwNs8un3u Yj5QD55dGrO0E4XYrfjnjIERPNa2G/xsCQiy3cr5SbNyblHdtF6tXVYi4i5EIaaR8m qeXiXVIQea1eiy8X1QOxvPNA8GHlKwet0g18hCj0zZsAh5zNT0w9TUPNeZMCr0K+UW tuHrySofLHP8hTDoGO0ZvFMWipc0Smw7o0Gcyf+avusBIGOPIiW3cTDvsq4V4YVPJJ wMHSvVdPdnqLG/3Qy7R4fcdf2h/pSMhoHx5CUO9ADwq1KKMutQ8h66BELGITC1BA/h KGoqX2Ud1Kvvg== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([80.187.110.208]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MIwz4-1ofZTZ3i2s-00KSg3; Mon, 14 Nov 2022 09:41:12 +0100 Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 09:41:09 +0100 From: Sebastian Moeller To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Robert_Chac=F3n?= , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Robert_Chac=F3n_via_Bloat?= , dan CC: bloat , libreqos User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1A0A3366-3907-4F4E-A055-525A3CBDAC2A@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=----CM3MTBZP5SPWRFH3J7K4UD3RZIFNPP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:g3/UubntiWOCTedxq9nhJ8SuaRHJ/yhOTsU19FRc3cDd4SdNT3T K2SOf9KRkVv5IVbTlmrSv1GKRhdXm1zDY3uJoongNXpEh7c94cTztmJHBeuq6KRtb3rcFOR 4oNML3N/DfC+RMUjm0QNs9umDsJQgW3+UClwsfpSt+Kze/LLOTF8JARvOmkvEG/PkotQx+3 MP2BIP1ugkns0rp/bLSXg== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:4P81DAydaUU=;6pQn1D2uuZQR9dchccEF6Zrx3jv MXkKf2u0iWNYihJziRTGHhrLEZTbT5wyvodcRt3ao06rwbqL0aWhCozXcVRPJsyaEKnFJnMOV LhNXmyWytzq8zTOV267jCQ9f0Q/kUQ99cHn/rvbE/alOLpyG/iEmnyEcukf/49WiJn9wB3Vzy Up1GGr5bgHuzNs2lEgTqoVfn+YFeCKd6mvun7U7yqGJ8ScLBhmWHh+QGZuVnWhp/VpuOVFaDy M/HrMHCGbXaQDjU3mZyhaEA3J96qdiK5t/D60152DHkvtPcQWqa2+sXLMiAchlTRM72Dj5E0i q4bxeMaQVlepeX/7cwCwFZ8g/ZKJomwNvZwQy8I4H80ksiH4Rq+oX2dqKjfUv53VNCUajnZjQ 4CGAoYN67gZMN8Zy9sCbs4vWCS5dX2gZuyvCnKuQgUa/6Pf1uYCqclsdPJLfVvawORMOHY1k6 kT6PxNnpOgvm+JqDLHlXZDnlH1VbTPlDxEDL0TNhfh+5n/yM0RpskIevNc/AKbPkk+ip1ypcd 6+WIO7qYxlvXETlbsAH0JgG2zxNqXvoVT5Rcp/62RqgPwsxntE2GiwJxgPFlZy2zWGnKpTwaC zHSHoVmuOuNzDK8y3mRgrdnnWrMlAggSXaG2PSyXreUNt0oixYZzRad16I6PxMo3IyJEBlXlb zH87WoK/SoQ38vuAC6H9HDpCjfF3u+dLOVydwbhgM0geGo8rsYZ1zoGXzvL3gIlgQvVaRC+8A C6/EvJ+TfoRddYiuHLW4rjELBX8+LLDBxAImrvPCX5yUtv8E1rbCAKDPXb6i/65BxlN1ISCYS yuoqIoyLGFSbXNIqyi2Q5wc/zDaQSXKDhbGV1O9rzMIFL+Ui9yPwh7fDvFZvva1rCjORLC9TS zU+xH7vzegh1gLsRI1j3M1cgSj+cuFDRHLl0v+ZYzzxC0g9JbWTCJ0wNxOhq9dQsrTJcCSIJ8 ntZHBdObBp32VsbrFU9WG8ec9Lg= Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] [Bloat] gamebench quote X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2022 08:41:15 -0000 ------CM3MTBZP5SPWRFH3J7K4UD3RZIFNPP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Robert, This is surprisingly rich in useful information and quite lean on marketin= g (given that this is marketing material having easily accessible links to = source material is unusually open*)=2E Nice=2E=20 Regards Sebastian *) Personally that approach would likely reel me in as customer, if I live= d in your service area ;) On 14 November 2022 00:16:57 CET, "Robert Chac=C3=B3n via Bloat" wrote: >Same here=2E We compete primarily against Charter Spectrum in the suburbs= =2E >Gamers and twitch streamers switch to us frequently due to the high uploa= d >bloat and jitter on Spectrum's network=2E >We made a page on our website >that tries to educate prospective clients about latency and bloat=2E I ad= ded >the GameBench quote to it (thanks, Dave!) >Surprisingly, some people do read it and it helps ease their minds about >"speed" when they're used to being bombarded with messaging about needing >gigabit bandwidth=2E > >> I'm happy enough if TDS and Spectrum take their sweet time figuring out >that latency is important :D > >This! That and their inability to really do whole-home WiFi at scale help= s >WISPs offer a true performance answer to cable internet=2E > >On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:56 PM dan via LibreQoS < >libreqos@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet> wrote: > >> This is definitely our focus=2E We preach low latency first and better >> uploads second, downloads are a distant third=2E We do have to adverti= se the >> faster speeds just to get into the conversation because Spectrum for >> example and now TDS are all about 1G or 2G services=2E See my other em= ail >> though, Spectrum's latency and jitter is garbage, TDS is actually worse >> than that to many services but I don't have a remote login to a TDS sit= e at >> the moment=2E I'm 15ms more from AWS Oregon on TDS than Spectrum, and = I'm >> 20ms better than Spectrum on Lumen DIA=2E >> >> I'm happy enough if TDS and Spectrum take their sweet time figuring out >> that latency is important :D >> >> On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:52 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < >> libreqos@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet> wrote: >> >>> >>> https://www=2Egamebench=2Enet/network-performance-and-gamer-experience= -the-us-edition/ >>> >>> "Overall, the consistently reinforced takeaway is that latency has now >>> clearly overtaken broadband speed as the focus area for network >>> providers seeking to provide =E2=80=93 and guarantee and commercially = benefit >>> from =E2=80=93 optimum experience in both online multiplayer and cloud >>> gaming=2E" >>> >>> -- >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >>> >>> https://www=2Elinkedin=2Ecom/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69= 81366665607352320-FXtz >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>> _______________________________________________ >>> LibreQoS mailing list >>> LibreQoS@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet >>> https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinfo/libreqos >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> LibreQoS mailing list >> LibreQoS@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet >> https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinfo/libreqos >> > > >--=20 >Robert Chac=C3=B3n >CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC >Dev | LibreQoS=2Eio --=20 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E ------CM3MTBZP5SPWRFH3J7K4UD3RZIFNPP Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Robert,

This is surprisingly rich in use= ful information and quite lean on marketing (given that this is marketing m= aterial having easily accessible links to source material is unusually open= *)=2E Nice=2E

Regards
Sebastian

*) Personally tha= t approach would likely reel me in as customer, if I lived in your service = area ;)


On 14 November 2022 00:16:57 = CET, "Robert Chac=C3=B3n via Bloat" <bloat@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet>= wrote:
Same here=2E We compete primarily against Charter Sp= ectrum in the suburbs=2E
Gamers and twitch streamers switch to us= frequently due to the high upload bloat and jitter on Spectrum's network= =2E
We made a page on our website that tries to educate prospective clients ab= out latency and bloat=2E I added the GameBench quote to it (thanks, Dave!)<= br>
Surprisingly, some people do read it and it helps ease their = minds about "speed" when they're used to being bombarded with messaging abo= ut needing gigabit bandwidth=2E

> I'm happy= enough if TDS and Spectrum take their sweet time figuring out that latency= is important :D

This! That and their inability to= really do whole-home WiFi at scale helps WISPs offer a true performance an= swer to cable internet=2E

On Sun, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:56 PM dan via= LibreQoS <libreqo= s@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet> wrote:
This is definitely our focus= =2E  We preach low latency first and better uploads second, downloads = are a distant third=2E  We do have to advertise the faster speeds just= to get into the conversation because Spectrum for example and now TDS are = all about 1G or 2G services=2E  See my other email though, Spectrum's = latency and jitter is garbage, TDS is actually worse than that to many serv= ices but I don't have a remote login to a TDS site at the moment=2E  I= 'm 15ms more from AWS Oregon on TDS than Spectrum, and I'm 20ms better than= Spectrum on Lumen DIA=2E  

I'm happy enough if TDS and Sp= ectrum take their sweet time figuring out that latency is important :D
On Su= n, Nov 13, 2022 at 3:52 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists=2Ebufferb= loat=2Enet> wrote:
h= ttps://www=2Egamebench=2Enet/network-performance-and-gamer-experience-the-u= s-edition/

"Overall, the consistently reinforced takeaway is that latency has now
clearly overtaken broadband speed as the focus area for network
providers seeking to provide =E2=80=93 and guarantee and commercially bene= fit
from =E2=80=93 optimum experience in both online multiplayer and cloud
gaming=2E"

--
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https:/= /www=2Elinkedin=2Ecom/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666656073= 52320-FXtz
Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
Li= breQoS@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet
https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinfo/libre= qos
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
Li= breQoS@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet
https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinfo/libre= qos

--
Sent from my Andr= oid device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E
<= /html> ------CM3MTBZP5SPWRFH3J7K4UD3RZIFNPP--