From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62CDA3CB37 for ; Fri, 28 Oct 2022 17:45:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 29SLjcsX031255; Fri, 28 Oct 2022 23:45:38 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E14AEA76D; Fri, 28 Oct 2022 23:45:38 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=irif.fr; h= content-type:content-type:mime-version:user-agent:references :in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from:message-id:date:date :received:received; s=dkim-irif; t=1666993536; x=1667857537; bh= psdW0PkayALvTcQ88wRAiYAlh96ylpbk0A1dhH8y8KA=; b=TXBz7YIuu/alRRkz 9EYVD5Brss1pODgV972dLDRGUq++7azDROg1bDXDrCgh/bWTt6hXUoBbVY/HcQ1H roa4egOu2TbG8fXH446HGXcp9bnJd9p1laCCMrVJD38jllJ82q/rovaWYvEkSiCp Tce/R66L9p/F2BTgg/UwmoBu2hYblmsTV02CScqiLl0vvq7j8RRyFmVzkrQluWbJ /fsvJw2Ml3VDC3Pr7GtzHXfZcXjiDYEVYgy6u/1gk9rayf1wo4KHuxQ2gIFQLi2v 8KUUQOTnB4kMNuCTBS1V7I/GdKi4+QsPCNDajan0suz5HJp+UC1+u/Z54+VA/df1 ZmQXhw== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id LdhWNgs-FsnA; Fri, 28 Oct 2022 23:45:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BBF00EA76A; Fri, 28 Oct 2022 23:45:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2022 23:45:36 +0200 Message-ID: <87sfj7vczj.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Dave Taht Cc: Herbert Wolverson , libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/28.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Fri, 28 Oct 2022 23:45:38 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 635C4D82.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 635C4D82.001 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 635C4D82.001 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 28 Oct 2022 17:51:06 -0400 Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] routing protocols and daemons X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2022 21:45:41 -0000 > found babel, corresponded with (and frankly thoroughly annoyed) the > author, Being said author, I can confirm that you did thoroughly annoy me. But then, you also made me think. > Babel is so simple that toke wrote a near complete implementation from > the spec, in python, during a string of extremely boring IETF > meetings, over the course of a week. He later took on the bird port. This is not correct. Babel was first reimplemented in Python during two nights during an IETF meeting by Markus Stenberg. As to Toke, he did the BIRD reimplementation in C during a Battlemesh meeting, and it took him a whole four days. I later did a minimal implementation in C, which compiled to 20kB of x86 code. > I forget what happened to toke's python version). Markus Stenberg's. It's still available, but fairly obsolete due to advances in babeld and BIRD. https://github.com/fingon/pybabel > Althea is using babel and fq_codel in their blockchain routing thing > (I reserve comment), and I don't know where else, besides as part of > wireguard tunnels, babel is being used today. Now that Babel is no longer a legitimate research project, the main user and main source of funding for Babel are Nexedi, who use it in their distributed cloud https://www.nexedi.com/ But I agree with you, Dave, Babel did not take over the world. The main reason, I suspect, is that OSPF is very good, and that most people are happy enough with it. Notwithstanding that, we're still maintaining both the standalone babeld and Toke's BIRD module, and we've been busy extending the protocol with source-specific routing, with v4-via-v6 routing, with MAC protection. -- Juliusz