From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pf1-x435.google.com (mail-pf1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE5543B29E for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2022 15:28:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x435.google.com with SMTP id w189so2045773pfw.4 for ; Fri, 21 Oct 2022 12:28:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=NxrtUhcN6VVy6BhFyUKFC5Fn7D9zfyomcIFs3zR9dOQ=; b=qoIq//U+bumU9id0dIhxsBrZbQu65K2hpQ0gvaIKCgUxpHgrStZNFZPNGvV4XsD7jl /OzhTacEE5vzAz5FyoOqmk6BzgXLF2g2xUHMJND6EKB4huFxZ8mVkEuEIsBrUVHNKwQZ qsnPDq33JXcPbO+B4yM3/xETZQYFDMd0Gpp9i5H9B539IzmbEw3dcgc0xa5DlXUo2ujv NY2fLGLN9YRKDrPwfwJStvnd47nad3RaUqZfY/u91L1vX9dRl9VIEJR4JWULQqt3U7Pg qqagxVPsIcf1ic1W0e6KdwdjHqe1Ac9I8DrjKun8d+KF+eQujxkB9ngN5Zem6iL1qwub Nb9Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=NxrtUhcN6VVy6BhFyUKFC5Fn7D9zfyomcIFs3zR9dOQ=; b=ZEOGxVlAhkdtZnd6O/1T7j+8qfkjP3BjyJxqm/0GZ2wGhOL6BAl0TYl840Bp4uev0Q +g0K/ne7TGn3/LbS+KLPutjWaGpup6gDmBmw94rvj9AszUhXKa2Mg1AsVFyG0xjWa6PF WMx+tA37qCBtqfPi+Jon+f0RQQDvwxBWp2fZMfxqrInPWQ5V6OyoHPY5ppDon5EZGDTG IM2CLtxkotlnT6mzM1cBm3hBda89QvNNG9HLE0Aq9i1c888kAD0gLvJdKq2jKPEkHhF1 djDAR9cea9NRbxrUy3bukS00prtEmt2T+/ozCKc912KnXzg8lsJfdoypsaUchQGSo6kf CCEw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1wVxXo+IXq+4mGOcCJ01PPLAAVq2kHvBdmSrmetaGOU3NkAqAC ybZ0HMViasEKEpKXndLRjmgbaBNzJv7ROYjwDoiONoitBt4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7SKV4cSD+nE7J25vmBDQNWMBvLLDenysbPmcAyDI/eRr/3Tp4WnGrvNUtgMzOPWMj3mboDR/YTJDWEmEvwcD4= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:3493:b0:562:f7c0:cbd9 with SMTP id cp19-20020a056a00349300b00562f7c0cbd9mr20648183pfb.4.1666380511520; Fri, 21 Oct 2022 12:28:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Herbert Wolverson Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 14:28:20 -0500 Message-ID: Cc: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000732d9a05eb9072ec" Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] billing integrations X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 19:28:33 -0000 --000000000000732d9a05eb9072ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow, internationalization is always a fun one. I've worked on precisely one i8n project, so my knowledge is pretty limited (and it was English-Welsh, which isn't a big target audience; I'd hope the principles are similar. I'm originally from England, with a Welsh mother - I've just been in the US for 20+ years and largely lost my accent). That particular project only translated documentation and webpages; configuration and source code stayed strictly in English. IIRC, we ended up with a set of "template" pages in each supported language= , with markup indicating "program puts X here". All of the programmatically generated text was fed into a string table, and the template system substituted the appropriate locale's (selected by the user) template and then filled in the appropriate strings from the string table. It worked, I do remember that some of the translations were really tricky. Ordering changes a lot. For example "Herbert is not a valid name" is "Nid yw Herbert yn enw dilys" in Welsh (I think; haven't spoken it for decades, but I checked with Google Translate and it looks right). Non-latin character-set languages become painful, really fast. Validation i= s *really* hard when there are multiple different ways of producing "K=C3=B6n= nen" (it's valid to use the =C3=B6 character, it's also valid to use an o with modifiers). I had some fun with that one in Rust Brain Teasers: https://media.pragprog.com/titles/hwrustbrain/string.pdf Rust has pretty good support for most of the common i8n systems, and UTF-8 is its default character set. It looks like Python is in pretty similar shape. So there isn't a big barrier there, beyond deciding where i8n fits into the project, how deep it needs to be, and finding translators! As for the billing side.. I'm not sure that's LibreQoS's problem (yet). Ideally, we'd become popular enough that vendors want to support our integrations, and have a rich-enough API to make supporting Libre not hurt. I know I'd rather not try and go head to head with all of the various billing vendors... It looks like UISP has a pretty good language and currency list - but I've NO idea how it works with payment processors overseas. I remember PayPal giving me all manner of troubles when I did some (free) consulting work for a fellow in Poland who decided to tip me what turned out to be a small fraction of a US dollar. :-| On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 11:41 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 6:36 PM Robert Chac=C3=B3n > wrote: > > > > Agree with Dan on the prominent platforms being UISP, VISP, Splynx, > Powercode, Sonar V1, and Sonar V2. > > > > Poll added here to gauge the community on which CRMs/NMSs are most > desired. > > https://github.com/rchac/LibreQoS/discussions/133 > > > > Integration complete: > > > > UISP v1.2+ > > > > Mostly Done: > > > > Splinx v1.3-alpha+ (work needed to confirm it works - volunteers > welcome). > > > > Work in Progress: > > > > VISP > > > > GraphQL is an awful API but I'm trying my best with it. > > > > Not started yet: > > > > Powercode > > Sonar V1 > > Sonar V2 > > I see the poll there, and a sudden shift back to github (which I'm > cool with), and who knows what the future holds for email 'round here. > > I did want to discuss that what was on my mind was a piece of feature > set outside what I think most are thinking so far. > > At the tippy top of my list was multiple language support. For most of > western europe, english suffices, allthough the brits can get a bit > stuffy sometimes about american rather than "proper" english. :) > However elsewhere in the world, where I think libreqos might become > popular, it's a grabbag. > > So of these integrations above, which, if any, support Polish, > Portuguese, Spanish, Croatian, or Russian? I am not sure what > languages are common > in Africa, although I think there's a strong french influence in kenya? > > The related problem in billing is currencies. Being able to not only > bill in the native (or more than one) currency is very important > elsewhere. Also payment schemes are fungible, a very common scheme for > cellular is the gift card, and in Nicaragua, at least, the post is > very unreliable and credit cards scarce, so banks and grocers take > payments of various kinds. > > I did a LOT of i18n work in the 90s and am intimately familiar with > the "iconv" _(string) facility we used to cope internationalizing C. > I'm scared to look > for what exists for pythoin and rust? or for that matter, web pages? > It was extremely easy, once you started using iconv, to sit down with > a multi-lingual speaker and get a decent translate done, without > knowing anything about the code. I did the ardour.org translation with > my spanish speaking gf over a couple weeks (it was GREAT FUN! for both > of us) > > > > > > > > - Robert > > > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 6:31 PM dan via LibreQoS < > libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> > >> meh. Industry features matter. > >> > >> Leading platforms: > >> Ubiquiti's UISP (cause it's free). somewhat mediocre so people like t= o > migrate off of it. zero support from ubiquiti but well documented API. > >> VISP. very popular, API available, they are happy to integrate. This > is the 'rising star' > >> Splinx. also quite popular, second up and comer. > >> Powercode. older, very popular, steady userbase and generally well > liked.. > >> Sonar V1. being depreciated, well liked but not long for this world. > >> Sonar V2. Complete rewrite, well well well hated. > >> > >> This is probably 95%+ of the wISP market right now. > >> > >> Fiber market is pretty similar but there are modules for a lot of othe= r > more generic platforms for fiber so I'd say the above list is more like > maybe 60% of the minor league fiber players. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 6:25 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < > libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> https://github.com/killbill/killbill > >>> > >>> bill.com is popular > >>> > >>> zillion others. ? > >>> > >>> -- > >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: > >>> > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-698136666= 5607352320-FXtz > >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> LibreQoS mailing list > >>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> LibreQoS mailing list > >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > > > > > > > > -- > > Robert Chac=C3=B3n > > CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC > > > > -- > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: > > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-698136666= 5607352320-FXtz > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > _______________________________________________ > LibreQoS mailing list > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > --000000000000732d9a05eb9072ec Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wow, internationalization is always a fun one. I'= ve worked on precisely one i8n
project, so my knowledge is pretty= limited (and it was English-Welsh, which isn't a big
ta= rget audience; I'd hope the principles are similar. I'm originally = from England, with
a Welsh mother - I've just been in the US = for 20+ years and largely lost my accent).
That particular projec= t only translated documentation and webpages;
configuration and s= ource code stayed strictly in English.

IIRC, we en= ded up with a set of "template" pages in each supported language,=
with markup indicating "program puts X here". All of t= he programmatically
generated text was fed into a string table, a= nd the template system
substituted the appropriate locale's (= selected by the user) template
and then filled in the appropriate= strings from the string table. It worked, I do
remember that som= e of the translations were really tricky. Ordering changes
a lot.= For example "Herbert is not a valid name" is "Nid yw Herber= t yn enw dilys"
in Welsh (I think; haven't spoken it for= decades, but I checked with Google
Translate and it looks right)= .

Non-latin character-set languages become painful= , really fast. Validation is
really hard when there are mu= ltiple different ways of producing "K=C3=B6nnen"
(it= 9;s valid to use the=20 =C3=B6 character, it's also valid to use an o with modifiers).
I had some fun with that one in Rust Brain Teasers:

R= ust has pretty good support for most of the common i8n systems, and
UTF-8 is its default character set. It looks like Python is in pretty si= milar
shape. So there isn't a big barrier there, beyond decid= ing where i8n fits
into the project, how deep it needs to be, and= finding translators!

As for the billing side.= . I'm not sure that's LibreQoS's problem (yet). Ideally,
<= div>we'd become popular enough that vendors want to support our integra= tions,
and have a rich-enough API to make supporting Libre not hu= rt. I know I'd
rather not try and go head to head with all of= the various billing vendors...
It looks like UISP has a pretty g= ood language and currency list - but I've
NO idea how it work= s with payment processors overseas. I remember
PayPal giving me a= ll manner of troubles when I did some (free) consulting
work= for a fellow in Poland who decided to tip me what turned out to be a
=
small fraction of a US dollar. :-|

On Fri, Oct 21, 2022 at 11= :41 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 6:36 PM Robe= rt Chac=C3=B3n
<robert.chacon@jackrabbitwireless.com> wrote:
>
> Agree with Dan on the prominent platforms being UISP, VISP, Splynx, Po= wercode, Sonar V1, and Sonar V2.
>
> Poll added here to gauge the community on which CRMs/NMSs are most des= ired.
> https://github.com/rchac/LibreQoS/discussions/= 133
>
> Integration complete:
>
> UISP v1.2+
>
> Mostly Done:
>
> Splinx v1.3-alpha+ (work needed to confirm it works - volunteers welco= me).
>
> Work in Progress:
>
> VISP
>
> GraphQL is an awful API but I'm trying my best with it.
>
> Not started yet:
>
> Powercode
> Sonar V1
> Sonar V2

I see the poll there, and a sudden shift back to github (which I'm
cool with), and who knows what the future holds for email 'round here.<= br>
I did want to discuss that what was on my mind was a piece of feature
set outside what I think most are thinking so far.

At the tippy top of my list was multiple language support. For most of
western europe, english suffices, allthough the brits can get a bit
stuffy sometimes about american rather than "proper" english. :)<= br> However elsewhere in the world, where I think libreqos might become
popular, it's a grabbag.

So of these integrations above, which, if any, support Polish,
Portuguese, Spanish, Croatian, or Russian? I am not sure what
languages are common
in Africa, although I think there's a strong french influence in kenya?=

The related problem in billing is currencies. Being able to not only
bill in the native (or more than one) currency is very important
elsewhere. Also payment schemes are fungible, a very common scheme for
cellular is the gift card, and in Nicaragua, at least, the post is
very unreliable and credit cards scarce, so banks and grocers take
payments of various kinds.

I did a LOT of i18n work in the 90s and am intimately familiar with
the "iconv" _(string) facility we used to cope internationalizing= C.
I'm scared to look
for what exists for pythoin and rust? or for that matter, web pages?
It was extremely easy, once you started using iconv, to sit down with
a multi-lingual speaker and get a decent translate done, without
knowing anything about the code. I did the ardour.org translation with
my spanish speaking gf over a couple weeks (it was GREAT FUN! for both
of us)




>
> - Robert
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 6:31 PM dan via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferblo= at.net> wrote:
>>
>> meh.=C2=A0 Industry features matter.
>>
>> Leading platforms:
>> Ubiquiti's UISP (cause it's free).=C2=A0 somewhat mediocre= so people like to migrate off of it.=C2=A0 zero support from ubiquiti but = well documented API.
>> VISP.=C2=A0 very popular, API available, they are happy to integra= te.=C2=A0 This is the 'rising star'
>> Splinx.=C2=A0 also quite popular, second up and comer.
>> Powercode.=C2=A0 older, very popular, steady userbase and generall= y well liked..
>> Sonar V1.=C2=A0 being depreciated, well liked but not long for thi= s world.
>> Sonar V2.=C2=A0 Complete rewrite, well well well hated.
>>
>> This is probably 95%+ of the wISP market right now.
>>
>> Fiber market is pretty similar but there are modules for a lot of = other more generic platforms for fiber so I'd say the above list is mor= e like maybe 60% of the minor league fiber players.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 6:25 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists= .bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/killbill/killbill
>>>
>>> bill.com is popular
>>>
>>> zillion others. ?
>>>
>>> --
>>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would w= ork:
>>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665= 607352320-FXtz
>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> LibreQoS mailing list
>>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/l= ibreqos
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> LibreQoS mailing list
>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libre= qos
>
>
>
> --
> Robert Chac=C3=B3n
> CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC



--
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.= linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXt= z
Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
LibreQo= S@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
--000000000000732d9a05eb9072ec--