From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pf1-x429.google.com (mail-pf1-x429.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::429]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED7A33B29E for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 12:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x429.google.com with SMTP id w189so7953094pfw.4 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 09:31:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MR5rbHuhoNwOAYa9/RN/blNiV19OaTVXZg4UCH8n+SM=; b=BarIdDXevhLY6v8OqtOyBYfYbLl1kUjVCfvYlRBPphg/V1ZNpKYZlvpAlBZOfQkh91 XZTvSWyEx9VLsWBR3iIajSzkV4Mgi5a/w0dGao74b1MxycKAKg0NvJYJB7PdwYFHHeWd lLiqQEb1j7ypjEB6+iipxO1slRBehhZpTrNcrvXZ9habbV88uxhX9ybbDogV/D8y+o3E DjGaduh7qkLwn1PBdTM2ntVJD+ra/U+bmbHBLdZO7edagEkIbgpf5qKnMt77fKlXYWIV 3kWONljIuqcUuV/VrJ+y6KJzIvZ1A77QGVo9OaoGIg2d2ZMMBDDGEcQTlW2+5FUOHu3F MlQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MR5rbHuhoNwOAYa9/RN/blNiV19OaTVXZg4UCH8n+SM=; b=bhSi6Q9DgisyfGBsY+Ez98uuKU2gwqZPq2X0TaotICHnDA6Nkp/Uefnd3HnbCgb1X2 /BOd24c8ZjCsMlxjDkOQeFW+aUzcfTB9Ga5IDLhv2VkKz8AafM78bT4jv3ov5wuLtQE8 krHqv2e/eC6O6NjpwJ+cIFTlQP8snpa356JtihivmE++OlDrZJYnJKUP4y95Sy8VK4du xqggUT12FiNZjPfuwYK6i6ntW46Y8c86LXfMSTZux2t8GmwUAc3MDRUi043Nf0tp3Az+ o1e5Jqxz57pWGMSbUjfK01I4n2Wyx0GQ1nmwdKESBFNmtRqwT3MJf1SkA026aGiyBaYl mESg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf2ThbzsYkSfTGlvtdyQkjpv3bX+yBvlK2TxENIlfsfITQI5g70w iovuT+a6xrS2DDGY5uecpTk2OB4+W0pQKsz7e+/JOsLFS1I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM5YsEfUsZl+Ev230gVDw2/9sDl3WFEuwwq0NvufyuUgtvYRzClgUKbdV4qOgeuu5ASVOljTXyTrGrxQo5Qipmw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a02:207:b0:46f:1a92:9474 with SMTP id bh7-20020a056a02020700b0046f1a929474mr2509815pgb.344.1666629069633; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 09:31:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Herbert Wolverson Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 11:30:59 -0500 Message-ID: Cc: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ab003905ebca514b" Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] ookla speedtest results? X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 16:31:11 -0000 --000000000000ab003905ebca514b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packet capture for x duration? That's a good idea (I think there's a service somewhere for finding speedtest servers?). We're discussing testing the ack-filter feature right now, and something similar would work well for that. (We have a bunch of 25/5 and similarly asymmetric connections, in theory it'll help...) On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 10:31 AM dan via LibreQoS < libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packet capture for x > duration? > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:27 AM Dave Taht wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:20 AM dan wrote: >> > >> > Dave, I think that 'bouncing' is more CPU time in the browser. I don'= t >> think it's indicative over what's actually happening. >> >> A simultaneous packet capture and wireshark plot of the RTTs would >> also be helpful. >> >> > >> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:09 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < >> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Robert Chac=C3=B3n via LibreQoS >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > I can run an Ookla test in the middle of the night with LibreQoS of= f >> for a bit. >> >> >> >> Groovy. >> >> >> >> > From what I recall - without Libre we see download bloat of 300ms o= r >> so. With Libre, it's gone. On waveform we see 0ms added bloat each >> direction for most clients. >> >> >> >> The numbers report by speedtest bounce around a lot, and they tend to >> >> pick a lower number as a final result than I'd >> >> like. If there's a way to capture a movie of it... >> >> > >> >> > And I like the "monitor only" mode idea. >> >> > Perhaps we could create the HTB tree, but just not attach the CAKE >> qdisc? >> >> > Technically even HTB could reduce latency by itself on overloaded >> APs , so it wouldn't be true passive monitoring, but it would allow us t= o >> compare the before/after of CAKE while still having qdiscs we can point >> cpumap-pping to. >> >> > >> >> > Alternatively, maybe we could use eBPF PPing just for this passive >> monitoring period? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQoS < >> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Are you looking for a shaped result? That'll show "whatever >> bandwidth >> >> >> is left on the sector" without Libre, and around the customer's >> paid-for >> >> >> target with Libre (hopefully!). >> >> >> >> >> >> One thing Preseem does well is that their onboarding process >> includes >> >> >> "leave it in monitoring-only mode" for a week, gathering data >> before you >> >> >> pull the switch (although most ISPs I've talked to just pull the >> switch...) >> >> >> It's quite enlightening to see a before/after, even with only >> FQ_CODEL >> >> >> as the shaper. >> >> >> >> >> >> We could probably do something similar with a "monitor only" mode >> that >> >> >> doesn't enable any queues (is there a TC equivalent to "dummy" on >> >> >> FreeBSD?). >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < >> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> I am curious if anyone here has speedtest results with libreqos o= n >> and >> >> >>> off, and can send a screen shot? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- >> >> >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work= : >> >> >>> >> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666= 65607352320-FXtz >> >> >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> LibreQoS mailing list >> >> >>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >> >> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> LibreQoS mailing list >> >> >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >> >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Robert Chac=C3=B3n >> >> > CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > LibreQoS mailing list >> >> > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >> >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >> >> >> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666= 65607352320-FXtz >> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> LibreQoS mailing list >> >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >> >> >> >> -- >> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >> >> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666= 65607352320-FXtz >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> > _______________________________________________ > LibreQoS mailing list > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > --000000000000ab003905ebca514b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>=20 sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packet capture for x d= uration?

That's a good idea (I think ther= e's a service somewhere for finding speedtest
servers?). We&#= 39;re discussing testing the ack-filter feature right now, and something
similar would work well for that. (We have a bunch of 25/5 and simi= larly asymmetric
connections, in theory it'll help...)

On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 10:31 AM dan via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrot= e:
sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packet capture for= x duration?

On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:27 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
On Mon, Oct 24, = 2022 at 8:20 AM dan <dandenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dave, I think that 'bouncing' is more CPU time in the browser.= =C2=A0 I don't think it's indicative over what's actually happe= ning.

A simultaneous packet capture and wireshark plot of the RTTs would
also be helpful.

>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:09 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.buf= ferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Robert Chac=C3=B3n via LibreQoS >> <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > I can run an Ookla test in the middle of the night with Libre= QoS off for a bit.
>>
>> Groovy.
>>
>> > From what I recall - without Libre we see download bloat of 3= 00ms or so. With Libre, it's gone. On waveform we see 0ms added bloat e= ach direction for most clients.
>>
>> The numbers report by speedtest bounce around a lot, and they tend= to
>> pick a lower number as a final result than I'd
>> like. If there's a way to capture a movie of it...
>> >
>> > And I like the "monitor only" mode idea.
>> > Perhaps we could create the HTB tree, but just not attach the= CAKE qdisc?
>> > Technically even HTB could reduce latency by itself on overlo= aded APs , so it wouldn't be true passive monitoring, but it would allo= w us to compare the before/after of CAKE while still having qdiscs we can p= oint cpumap-pping to.
>> >
>> > Alternatively, maybe we could use eBPF PPing just for this pa= ssive monitoring period?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQo= S <l= ibreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Are you looking for a shaped result? That'll show &qu= ot;whatever bandwidth
>> >> is left on the sector" without Libre, and around the= customer's paid-for
>> >> target with Libre (hopefully!).
>> >>
>> >> One thing Preseem does well is that their onboarding proc= ess includes
>> >> "leave it in monitoring-only mode" for a week, = gathering data before you
>> >> pull the switch (although most ISPs I've talked to ju= st pull the switch...)
>> >> It's quite enlightening to see a before/after, even w= ith only FQ_CODEL
>> >> as the shaper.
>> >>
>> >> We could probably do something similar with a "monit= or only" mode that
>> >> doesn't enable any queues (is there a TC equivalent t= o "dummy" on
>> >> FreeBSD?).
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS &l= t;libre= qos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I am curious if anyone here has speedtest results wit= h libreqos on and
>> >>> off, and can send a screen shot?
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadi= a would work:
>> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity= -6981366665607352320-FXtz
>> >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> LibreQoS mailing list
>> >>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/l= istinfo/libreqos
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> LibreQoS mailing list
>> >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listi= nfo/libreqos
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Robert Chac=C3=B3n
>> > CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > LibreQoS mailing list
>> > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/= libreqos
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:=
>> htt= ps://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666656073= 52320-FXtz
>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>> _______________________________________________
>> LibreQoS mailing list
>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libre= qos



--
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.= linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXt= z
Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
LibreQo= S@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
--000000000000ab003905ebca514b--