> A third car anology is the classic jet engine strapped to the back of > a vw beetle. And that's why I drive a beaten up 2012 VW beetle. :-) On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 9:00 AM Dave Taht wrote: > On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 6:38 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQoS > wrote: > > > > > If I had more time, I would have written a short letter - Blaise Pascal > > > > >> It's not a big truck. It's a series of tubes. And if you don't > understand, those tubes can be filled and if they are filled, when you put > your message in, it gets in line and it's going to be delayed by anyone > that puts into that tube enormous amounts of material, enormous amounts of > material. - Sen Ted R. Stevens > > > > Summarizing is tough. As Sebastian pointed out, you almost need a > summary per > > target audience. Those two quotes highlight the problem: to the domain > expert, > > it's almost impossible to summarize an issue because you'll be jumped on > by > > other domain experts - and, knowing all about the issue, it feels > dangerous to > > omit the details. Conversely, if an expert briefs some Senate aides - > who in > > turn brief a non-technical senator - you can end up with a widely mocked > speech. > > If you tone down the mockery, it's not hard to see how Sen. Stevens came > > to his wording - pipes, capacity, delays, queues; it does start to sound > like a > > series of tubes. > > > > One of my coworkers likens it to the water system: > > > > The city has plenty of water, with big pipes and good pressure going to > > everyone's house. Your house's feed to the water main limits how much > > water you can get at one time - that's your download speed. Plumbing > > design, pipe and valve quality all affect the delay between turning your > > faucet on and nice cold water coming out. That's your latency. You need > > to optimize both. > > > > I tend to find that customers like car analogies: > > > > On a perfect racetrack, a Ferrari will reach the end before a Honda > Civic. > > The Ferrari has more power, and is designed for faster speeds. On a > > public road network, the Ferrari still outpaces the Civic on fast, open > roads - > > but it only takes one traffic jam, one poorly designed intersection or > > stoplight - for both vehicles to be seriously delayed. Ferrari's have a > > very high speed (your download speed), and multi-lane highways have > > great capacity (high speed networks) - but a single congested traffic > > ramp (a buffer between connections) can ruin the overall travel > experience > > by adding long delays (latency) while cars merge onto different roads. > > Quality of Experience optimizes the buffers between roads, providing > > a smoother experience overall. > > Also ferrari's are uncomfortable as hell in traffic. You can't see > over the windshield, the seating position requires a massage therapist > at the end of the ride, and you're paranoid as hell someone will hit > you, and if the motor gives out it's a 2k repair bill > and weeks of downtime before you get it back. > > Then, there's the gas mileage, or lack thereof. > > Another analogy we've used is the dragster design for many internet > benchmarks. You can only go really, really fast, in one direction, > without the ability to steer, and tons of smoke and noise. > > A third car anology is the classic jet engine strapped to the back of > a vw beetle. > > You need good steering, brakes, suspension, in order to build a balanced > ride. > > > > > > (Both could be shortened, but analogy is frequently the way to reach > > non-technical users) > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 12, 2022 at 7:15 AM Sebastian Moeller via LibreQoS < > libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> > >> Hi Dave, > >> > >> > >> so I think you have three audiences that should learn about this: > >> a) end-users (my hot-take was tailored for end-users) > >> b) politicians > >> c) industry people (C-suite members of ISPs*) > >> > >> > >> I think you need three different one paragraph summaries tailored to > each groups focus. > >> > >> > >> a) end users > >> I would stress the "you can improve your link today with little work" > to make it fit for video conferencing "under working conditions". > >> I would not wade into the swamp that is "gaming" any deeper than > necessary (so have a sentence along the lines of "these described methods > will obviously also help other > >> latency-sensitive applications like gaming"). Why avoid gaming? Gamers > are quite opinionated and take promises often literally, hence are easy to > disappoint so better under-promise, but over-deliver. > >> > >> b) politicians > >> Here I would emphasize that while fiber-to-everyone is the ultimate > goal getting latency under control will result in a noticeable "better" > (because subjectively more responsive) internet experience for those that > will have to wait longer for fiber. I simply assume that fiber-everywhere > is the goal across the aisle in the US, at least over here all major > parties agree about the ultimate goal and just disagree how to get there, > with the party in opposition magically always seeing more urgency ;). > >> So push this as a relative low-effort/low-cost method to noticeably > improve the internet experience for the electorate... > >> > >> c) industry people > >> This has two groups, those that run large internal networks and ISPs. I > think for the first group the arguments for a) and b) could be re-used (b) > reframed as low-cost ways to get more mileage out of the existing network > infrastructure with a few targeted replacements/upgrades/configuration > changes). > >> For the second group I am a bit at a loss, as the arguments a) and b) > MIGHT not be all that attractive for someone selling internet-access priced > by "top-speed", making lower speeds more enjoyable/usable seems a bit > counter productive... One pitch could be a marketable advantage over the > competition, but that requires actual competition. > >> Not sure how to give the enlightened ones arguments to convince their > peers. > >> > >> Regards > >> Sebastian > >> > >> > >> > >> *) some are enlightened already > >> > >> > >> P.S.: QoS, vs QoE > >> Cause and effect, means and end... What the users will evaluate are > their experiences; traditional QoS can be a means to improve that > experience, with a hitherto often neglected aspect being latency-under-load > which above a bare minimum access rate seems to correlate stronger with > user experience than top-speeds. > >> > >> To convince CFO, or congresscritters I would think the best would be a > simple mobile demonstration platform... together with argument b) above > >> > >> > >> > On Nov 12, 2022, at 00:16, Dave Taht via Bloat < > bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> > > >> > If you were to try to summarize this *in a paragraph*, what would you > say? > >> > > >> > https://www.bitag.org/documents/BITAG_latency_explained.pdf > >> > > >> > (yes, I helped write this, but squeezing it down to less than 3 pages > >> > is beyond my capabilities, much less a paragraph, and by the time we > >> > hit the recommendations section, things had got too political to make > >> > sane recommendations) > >> > > >> > Also QoS, vs QoE. Try to imagine explaining the need to a CFO, or > >> > congresscritter. Feel free to take more than a paragraph. > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: > >> > > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz > >> > Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Bloat mailing list > >> > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> LibreQoS mailing list > >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > > > > _______________________________________________ > > LibreQoS mailing list > > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > > > > -- > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: > > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz > Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >