[LibreQoS] Fwd: [New post] More Mapping Drama

[LibreQoS] Fwd: [New post] More Mapping Drama

[Dave Taht]

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I would like to bring back the IXP concepts in the USA.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Jane Coffin <jane@connecthumanity.fund>
Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [New post] More Mapping Drama
To: Garland McCoy <garland.mccoy@pagcasa.org>
Cc: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>, National Broadband Mapping Coalition <
bbcoalition@marconisociety.org>, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net>


Actually.  Bill is one of the IXP masters, but....

 ISOC has done a helluva lot of IXP build around the world, and I would tip
my hat to Michuki Mwangi (ISOC) and Nishal Goburdhan (PCH) along with some
folks at Netnod (Swedish exchange), and INEX (Irish exchange - used those
cats for training and they came up with the brilliant app - IXP Manager).
I also would tag Philip Smith (NSRC and father of BGP and LINX), Christian
O'Flaherty - one of my partners in crime on IXP build, Hisham Ibrahim
(formerly with AfriNIC and now with RIPE NCC), Jan Zorz (was with ISOC now
a v6 evangelist), Karen Rose (formerly with ISOC), Naveed Haq and Aftab
Siddiqui (of ISOC), Brent McIntosh (Grenada), and Bevil Wooding (formerly
with PCH and now with ARIN).  I also would note the amazing work that the
IXP Associations have done around the planet, and note the Peering Forums -
PIFs that ISOC with partners like PCH created around the world - except for
the US.  AfPIF - the African Peering and Interconnection Forum and CarPIF -
the Caribbean Peering and Interconnection Forum, BKNIX, the Bangkok Peering
forum.  One can't talk about IXPs without a nod to NOGs (Network Operator
Groups).  The US had the first NOG - NANOG, and they have taken off from
there.  ISOC uses NOGs, and PIFs, and IXPs, and the RIRs to promote
Mutually Agreed Norms for Routing Security (MANRS)...great initiative and I
would urge anyone looking at secure routing to chat with them and the RIRs
(RPKI etc).

Note that ISOC is the only org that has put out multiple studies that show
over time and via snapshots the importance of IXPs to build your local
Internet, increase resilience, allow for redundancy of nets at the local
level, and has tracked how much latency diminishes, performance increases,
and how quickly prices drop.

Big Telcos in the US nearly killed bottom-up carrier neutral IXPs.  Thank
goodness for ISOC, the RIRs (LACNIC, AfriNIC, ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE NCC),
ICANN, IETF to a degree, NSRC, PCH, the NOGs, and the Peering Fora for
keeping network training, the importance of diverse peering ecosystems, and
the IXPs that are making a resurgence in the US.

It takes a village.  A well-trained diverse village.

On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:51 AM Garland McCoy <garland.mccoy@pagcasa.org>
wrote:

>  Dave, I am sure Jane would agree that THE global master IXP builder is
> Bill Woodcock and his colleagues at Packet Clearing House (
> https://www.pch.net/) Bill has been doing this for decades (and decades
> and decades). I have cced him in so you can circle the wagons. If by any
> chance you want SECURE Edges as part of your IXP deployment you should look
> up Onclave Networks (see link below)
>
>  https://onclavenetworks.com/
>
>
>
> On Apr 10, 2023, at 9:40 AM, Jane Coffin <jane@connecthumanity.fund>
> wrote:
>
> Dave -
>
> On IXPs - I can give you a lot of global examples.  On the US - less so.
> One of the founders of SF-MIX is at Connect Humanity and is talking to some
> folks about neutral/bottom-up IXPs - ISOC style, IFX, Euro-IX, Af-IX,
> LAC-IX, and AP-IX style.
>
> ISOC also has some excellent reports that show the impact of IXPs in
> countries - cheaper, better, faster local connectivity - and local
> resiliency and redundancy vs tromboning traffic that benefits
> transit/transport vs local fabric.
>
> Jane
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:08 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> While I frequently do not agree with doug´s blog, he does make for
>> interesting reading, and oy! a bill to slow things down further... :(
>>
>> I am also curious as to the state of the cybergeography these days.
>> (anyone remember this old project?
>>
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20060218123215/http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/topology.html
>> )
>>
>> I have been researching the state of the IXPs nowadays, and kind of
>> wondering if there was a noticeable difference in service quality between
>> cities with IXPs and those without. Anyone?
>>
>>
>> https://www.pch.net/ixp/summary_growth_by_country#!mt-sort=ixp_current%2Cdesc!mt-pivot=ixp_current
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: POTs and PANs <donotreply@wordpress.com>
>> Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 4:35 AM
>> Subject: [New post] More Mapping Drama
>> To: <dave.taht@gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> [image: Site logo image] Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting posted: "As if the
>> federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen (Dem-Nevada)
>> and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162 that would
>> “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are allocated under
>> the Broadband Equity, " POTs and PANs <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/> More
>> Mapping Drama
>> <https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpotsandpansbyccg.com%2F2023%2F04%2F10%2Fmore-mapping-drama%2F&sr=0&signature=cb143a1d8898a71681aebd52278c0bf3&blog_id=49312101&user=97642389&_e=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&_z=z>
>>
>> Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting
>> Apr 10
>>
>>
>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2022/12/19/the-individual-fcc-map-challenge/fcc-broadband-map/#main>As
>> if the federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen
>> (Dem-Nevada) and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162
>> that would “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are
>> allocated under the Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment Program based
>> on those maps”.
>>
>> If this law is enacted, the distribution of most of the BEAD grant funds
>> to States would be delayed by at least six months, probably longer. The
>> NTIA has already said that it intends to announce the allocation of the
>> $42.5 billion in grants to the states on June 30. The funds are supposed to
>> be allocated using the best count of unserved and underserved locations in
>> each state on that date. Unserved locations are those that can’t buy
>> broadband of at least 25/3 Mbps. Underserved locations are those unable to
>> buy broadband with speeds of at least 100/20 Mbps.
>>
>> To add to the story, FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel recently
>> announced that the FCC has largely completed the broadband map updates.
>> That announcement surprised the folks in the industry who have been working
>> with the map data, since everybody I talk to is still seeing a lot of
>> inaccuracies in the maps.
>>
>> To the FCC’s credit, its vendor CostQuest has been processing thousands
>> of individual challenges to the maps daily and has addressed 600 bulk
>> challenges that have been filed by States, counties, and other local
>> government entities. In making the announcement, Rosenworcel said that the
>> new map has added over one million new locations to the broadband map –
>> homes and businesses that were missed in the creation of the first version
>> of the map last fall.
>>
>> But the FCC map has two important components that must be correct for the
>> overall maps to be correct. The first is the mapping fabric that is
>> supposed to identify every location in the country that is a potential
>> broadband customer. I view this as a nearly impossible task. The US Census
>> spends many billions every ten years to identify the addresses of residents
>> and businesses in the country. CostQuest tried to duplicate the same thing
>> on a much smaller budget and with the time pressure of the maps being used
>> to allocate these grants. It’s challenging to count potential broadband
>> customers. I wrote a blog last year
>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2022/09/19/the-fcc-mapping-fabric/> that
>> outlined a few of the dozens of issues that must be addressed to get an
>> accurate map. It’s hard to think that CostQuest somehow figured out all of
>> these complicated questions in the last six months.
>>
>> Even if the fabric is much improved, the more important issue is that the
>> accuracy of the broadband map is reliant on two issues that are reported by
>> ISPs – the coverage area where an ISP should be able to connect a new
>> customer within ten days of a request, and the broadband speeds that are
>> available to a home or business at each location.
>>
>> ISPs are pretty much free to claim whatever they want. While there has
>> been a lot of work done to challenge the fabric and the location of
>> possible customers – it’s a lot harder to challenge the coverage claims of
>> specific ISPs. A true challenge would require many millions of individual
>> challenges about the broadband that is available at each home.
>>
>> Just consider my own home. The national broadband map says there are ten
>> ISPs available at my address. Several I’ve never heard of, and I’m willing
>> to bet that at least a few of them can’t serve me – but since I’m already
>> buying broadband from an ISP, I can’t think of any reason that would lead
>> me to challenge the claims of the ISPs I’m not using. The FCC thinks that
>> the challenge process will somehow fix the coverage issue – I can’t imagine
>> that more than a tiny fraction of folks are ever going to care enough to go
>> through the FCC map challenge process – or even know that the broadband map
>> exists.
>>
>> The FCC mapping has also not yet figured out how to come to grips with
>> broadband coverage claimed by wireless ISPs. It’s not hard looking through
>> the FCC data to find numerous WISPs that claim large coverage areas. In
>> real life, the availability of a wireless connection is complicated. The
>> FCC reporting is in the process of requiring wireless carriers to report
>> using a ‘heat map’ that shows the strength of the wireless signal at
>> various distances from each individual radio. But even these heat maps
>> won’t tell the full story. WISPs are sometimes able to find ways to serve
>> customers that are not within easy reach of a tower. But just like with
>> cellphone coverage, there are usually plenty of dead zones around a radio
>> that can’t be reached but that will still be claimed on a heat map - heat
>> maps are nothing more than a rough approximation of actual coverage. It’s
>> hard to imagine that wireless coverage areas will ever be fully accurate.
>>
>> DSL coverage over telephone copper is equally impossible to map
>> correctly, and there are still places where DSL is claimed but which can't
>> be served.
>>
>> Broadband speeds are even harder to challenge. Under the FCC mapping
>> rules, ISPs are allowed to claim marketing speeds. If an ISP markets
>> broadband as capable of 100/20 Mbps, they can claim that speed on the
>> broadband map. It doesn’t matter if the actual broadband delivered is only
>> a fraction of that speed. There are so many factors that affect broadband
>> speeds that the maps will never accurately depict the speeds folks can
>> really buy. It’s amazingly disingenuous for the FCC to say the maps are
>> accurate. The best we could ever hope for is that the maps will be better
>> if, and only if ISPs scrupulously follow the reporting rules – but nobody
>> thinks that is going to happen.
>>
>> I understand the frustration of the Senators who are suggesting this
>> legislation. But I also think that we’ll never get an accurate set of maps.
>> Don’t forget that Congress created the requirement to use the maps to
>> allocate the BEAD grant dollars. Grant funding could have been done in
>> other ways that didn't relay on the maps. I don’t think it’s going to make
>> much difference if we delay six months, a year, or four years – the maps
>> are going to remain consistently inconsistent.
>> Comment
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>> AMA March 31: https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht
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Re: [LibreQoS] Fwd: [New post] More Mapping Drama

[Brian Munyao Longwe]

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Thanks for sharing,

Are you aware that after receiving ISOC training at the INET 99 networking
workshop for developing countries in San Jose way back in 1999 - I went
back to my (then) home country, Kenya, and built/started KIXP with
assistance from Cisco and hands on support from Barry Raveendran Greene
(formerly Cisco)?

Thereafter and for next 8 odd years as GM for AfrISPA (African ISP
Association) I turned up or helped turn up IXPs in about 12 other African
countries - mostly funded under a project called “Catalysing Access to ICTs
in Africa” funded by UKs DFID, Canada’s IDRC and others.

I even did a couple of trips with Bill Woodcock in Africa and Asia.

Ta,

Brian

On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 at 4:28 PM, Dave Taht via LibreQoS <
libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> I would like to bring back the IXP concepts in the USA.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Jane Coffin <jane@connecthumanity.fund>
> Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [New post] More Mapping Drama
> To: Garland McCoy <garland.mccoy@pagcasa.org>
> Cc: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>, National Broadband Mapping Coalition
> <bbcoalition@marconisociety.org>, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net>
>
>
> Actually.  Bill is one of the IXP masters, but....
>
>  ISOC has done a helluva lot of IXP build around the world, and I would
> tip my hat to Michuki Mwangi (ISOC) and Nishal Goburdhan (PCH) along with
> some folks at Netnod (Swedish exchange), and INEX (Irish exchange - used
> those cats for training and they came up with the brilliant app - IXP
> Manager).  I also would tag Philip Smith (NSRC and father of BGP and LINX),
> Christian O'Flaherty - one of my partners in crime on IXP build, Hisham
> Ibrahim (formerly with AfriNIC and now with RIPE NCC), Jan Zorz (was with
> ISOC now a v6 evangelist), Karen Rose (formerly with ISOC), Naveed Haq and
> Aftab Siddiqui (of ISOC), Brent McIntosh (Grenada), and Bevil Wooding
> (formerly with PCH and now with ARIN).  I also would note the amazing work
> that the IXP Associations have done around the planet, and note the Peering
> Forums - PIFs that ISOC with partners like PCH created around the world -
> except for the US.  AfPIF - the African Peering and Interconnection Forum
> and CarPIF - the Caribbean Peering and Interconnection Forum, BKNIX, the
> Bangkok Peering forum.  One can't talk about IXPs without a nod to NOGs
> (Network Operator Groups).  The US had the first NOG - NANOG, and they have
> taken off from there.  ISOC uses NOGs, and PIFs, and IXPs, and the RIRs to
> promote Mutually Agreed Norms for Routing Security (MANRS)...great
> initiative and I would urge anyone looking at secure routing to chat with
> them and the RIRs (RPKI etc).
>
> Note that ISOC is the only org that has put out multiple studies that show
> over time and via snapshots the importance of IXPs to build your local
> Internet, increase resilience, allow for redundancy of nets at the local
> level, and has tracked how much latency diminishes, performance increases,
> and how quickly prices drop.
>
> Big Telcos in the US nearly killed bottom-up carrier neutral IXPs.  Thank
> goodness for ISOC, the RIRs (LACNIC, AfriNIC, ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE NCC),
> ICANN, IETF to a degree, NSRC, PCH, the NOGs, and the Peering Fora for
> keeping network training, the importance of diverse peering ecosystems, and
> the IXPs that are making a resurgence in the US.
>
> It takes a village.  A well-trained diverse village.
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:51 AM Garland McCoy <garland.mccoy@pagcasa.org>
> wrote:
>
>>  Dave, I am sure Jane would agree that THE global master IXP builder is
>> Bill Woodcock and his colleagues at Packet Clearing House (
>> https://www.pch.net/) Bill has been doing this for decades (and decades
>> and decades). I have cced him in so you can circle the wagons. If by any
>> chance you want SECURE Edges as part of your IXP deployment you should look
>> up Onclave Networks (see link below)
>>
>>  https://onclavenetworks.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 10, 2023, at 9:40 AM, Jane Coffin <jane@connecthumanity.fund>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dave -
>>
>> On IXPs - I can give you a lot of global examples.  On the US - less so.
>> One of the founders of SF-MIX is at Connect Humanity and is talking to some
>> folks about neutral/bottom-up IXPs - ISOC style, IFX, Euro-IX, Af-IX,
>> LAC-IX, and AP-IX style.
>>
>> ISOC also has some excellent reports that show the impact of IXPs in
>> countries - cheaper, better, faster local connectivity - and local
>> resiliency and redundancy vs tromboning traffic that benefits
>> transit/transport vs local fabric.
>>
>> Jane
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:08 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> While I frequently do not agree with doug´s blog, he does make for
>>> interesting reading, and oy! a bill to slow things down further... :(
>>>
>>> I am also curious as to the state of the cybergeography these days.
>>> (anyone remember this old project?
>>>
>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20060218123215/http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/topology.html
>>> )
>>>
>>> I have been researching the state of the IXPs nowadays, and kind of
>>> wondering if there was a noticeable difference in service quality between
>>> cities with IXPs and those without. Anyone?
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.pch.net/ixp/summary_growth_by_country#!mt-sort=ixp_current%2Cdesc!mt-pivot=ixp_current
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> From: POTs and PANs <donotreply@wordpress.com>
>>> Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 4:35 AM
>>> Subject: [New post] More Mapping Drama
>>> To: <dave.taht@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: Site logo image] Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting posted: "As if the
>>> federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen (Dem-Nevada)
>>> and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162 that would
>>> “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are allocated under
>>> the Broadband Equity, " POTs and PANs <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/> More
>>> Mapping Drama
>>> <https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpotsandpansbyccg.com%2F2023%2F04%2F10%2Fmore-mapping-drama%2F&sr=0&signature=cb143a1d8898a71681aebd52278c0bf3&blog_id=49312101&user=97642389&_e=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&_z=z>
>>>
>>> Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting
>>> Apr 10
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2022/12/19/the-individual-fcc-map-challenge/fcc-broadband-map/#main>As
>>> if the federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen
>>> (Dem-Nevada) and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162
>>> that would “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are
>>> allocated under the Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment Program based
>>> on those maps”.
>>>
>>> If this law is enacted, the distribution of most of the BEAD grant funds
>>> to States would be delayed by at least six months, probably longer. The
>>> NTIA has already said that it intends to announce the allocation of the
>>> $42.5 billion in grants to the states on June 30. The funds are supposed to
>>> be allocated using the best count of unserved and underserved locations in
>>> each state on that date. Unserved locations are those that can’t buy
>>> broadband of at least 25/3 Mbps. Underserved locations are those unable to
>>> buy broadband with speeds of at least 100/20 Mbps.
>>>
>>> To add to the story, FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel recently
>>> announced that the FCC has largely completed the broadband map updates.
>>> That announcement surprised the folks in the industry who have been working
>>> with the map data, since everybody I talk to is still seeing a lot of
>>> inaccuracies in the maps.
>>>
>>> To the FCC’s credit, its vendor CostQuest has been processing thousands
>>> of individual challenges to the maps daily and has addressed 600 bulk
>>> challenges that have been filed by States, counties, and other local
>>> government entities. In making the announcement, Rosenworcel said that the
>>> new map has added over one million new locations to the broadband map –
>>> homes and businesses that were missed in the creation of the first version
>>> of the map last fall.
>>>
>>> But the FCC map has two important components that must be correct for
>>> the overall maps to be correct. The first is the mapping fabric that is
>>> supposed to identify every location in the country that is a potential
>>> broadband customer. I view this as a nearly impossible task. The US Census
>>> spends many billions every ten years to identify the addresses of residents
>>> and businesses in the country. CostQuest tried to duplicate the same thing
>>> on a much smaller budget and with the time pressure of the maps being used
>>> to allocate these grants. It’s challenging to count potential broadband
>>> customers. I wrote a blog last year
>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2022/09/19/the-fcc-mapping-fabric/> that
>>> outlined a few of the dozens of issues that must be addressed to get an
>>> accurate map. It’s hard to think that CostQuest somehow figured out all of
>>> these complicated questions in the last six months.
>>>
>>> Even if the fabric is much improved, the more important issue is that
>>> the accuracy of the broadband map is reliant on two issues that are
>>> reported by ISPs – the coverage area where an ISP should be able to connect
>>> a new customer within ten days of a request, and the broadband speeds that
>>> are available to a home or business at each location.
>>>
>>> ISPs are pretty much free to claim whatever they want. While there has
>>> been a lot of work done to challenge the fabric and the location of
>>> possible customers – it’s a lot harder to challenge the coverage claims of
>>> specific ISPs. A true challenge would require many millions of individual
>>> challenges about the broadband that is available at each home.
>>>
>>> Just consider my own home. The national broadband map says there are ten
>>> ISPs available at my address. Several I’ve never heard of, and I’m willing
>>> to bet that at least a few of them can’t serve me – but since I’m already
>>> buying broadband from an ISP, I can’t think of any reason that would lead
>>> me to challenge the claims of the ISPs I’m not using. The FCC thinks that
>>> the challenge process will somehow fix the coverage issue – I can’t imagine
>>> that more than a tiny fraction of folks are ever going to care enough to go
>>> through the FCC map challenge process – or even know that the broadband map
>>> exists.
>>>
>>> The FCC mapping has also not yet figured out how to come to grips with
>>> broadband coverage claimed by wireless ISPs. It’s not hard looking through
>>> the FCC data to find numerous WISPs that claim large coverage areas. In
>>> real life, the availability of a wireless connection is complicated. The
>>> FCC reporting is in the process of requiring wireless carriers to report
>>> using a ‘heat map’ that shows the strength of the wireless signal at
>>> various distances from each individual radio. But even these heat maps
>>> won’t tell the full story. WISPs are sometimes able to find ways to serve
>>> customers that are not within easy reach of a tower. But just like with
>>> cellphone coverage, there are usually plenty of dead zones around a radio
>>> that can’t be reached but that will still be claimed on a heat map - heat
>>> maps are nothing more than a rough approximation of actual coverage. It’s
>>> hard to imagine that wireless coverage areas will ever be fully accurate.
>>>
>>> DSL coverage over telephone copper is equally impossible to map
>>> correctly, and there are still places where DSL is claimed but which can't
>>> be served.
>>>
>>> Broadband speeds are even harder to challenge. Under the FCC mapping
>>> rules, ISPs are allowed to claim marketing speeds. If an ISP markets
>>> broadband as capable of 100/20 Mbps, they can claim that speed on the
>>> broadband map. It doesn’t matter if the actual broadband delivered is only
>>> a fraction of that speed. There are so many factors that affect broadband
>>> speeds that the maps will never accurately depict the speeds folks can
>>> really buy. It’s amazingly disingenuous for the FCC to say the maps are
>>> accurate. The best we could ever hope for is that the maps will be better
>>> if, and only if ISPs scrupulously follow the reporting rules – but nobody
>>> thinks that is going to happen.
>>>
>>> I understand the frustration of the Senators who are suggesting this
>>> legislation. But I also think that we’ll never get an accurate set of maps.
>>> Don’t forget that Congress created the requirement to use the maps to
>>> allocate the BEAD grant dollars. Grant funding could have been done in
>>> other ways that didn't relay on the maps. I don’t think it’s going to make
>>> much difference if we delay six months, a year, or four years – the maps
>>> are going to remain consistently inconsistent.
>>> Comment
>>> <https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpotsandpansbyccg.com%2F2023%2F04%2F10%2Fmore-mapping-drama%2F%23respond&sr=0&signature=63622e30b19e5102ef36fc44d8991694&blog_id=49312101&user=97642389&_e=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&_z=z>
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Re: [LibreQoS] Fwd: [New post] More Mapping Drama

[Dave Taht]

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On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 8:33 AM Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for sharing,
>
> Are you aware that after receiving ISOC training at the INET 99 networking
> workshop for developing countries in San Jose way back in 1999 - I went
> back to my (then) home country, Kenya, and built/started KIXP with
> assistance from Cisco and hands on support from Barry Raveendran Greene
> (formerly Cisco)?
>
>
No. I knew I liked you for more than one reason!


> Thereafter and for next 8 odd years as GM for AfrISPA (African ISP
> Association) I turned up or helped turn up IXPs in about 12 other African
> countries - mostly funded under a project called “Catalysing Access to ICTs
> in Africa” funded by UKs DFID, Canada’s IDRC and others.
>

But my bigger question is how to get more IXPs on the radar for the BEAD
programs here....


>
> I even did a couple of trips with Bill Woodcock in Africa and Asia.
>
> Ta,
>
> Brian
>
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 at 4:28 PM, Dave Taht via LibreQoS <
> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>> I would like to bring back the IXP concepts in the USA.
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: Jane Coffin <jane@connecthumanity.fund>
>> Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [New post] More Mapping Drama
>> To: Garland McCoy <garland.mccoy@pagcasa.org>
>> Cc: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>, National Broadband Mapping
>> Coalition <bbcoalition@marconisociety.org>, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net>
>>
>>
>> Actually.  Bill is one of the IXP masters, but....
>>
>>  ISOC has done a helluva lot of IXP build around the world, and I would
>> tip my hat to Michuki Mwangi (ISOC) and Nishal Goburdhan (PCH) along with
>> some folks at Netnod (Swedish exchange), and INEX (Irish exchange - used
>> those cats for training and they came up with the brilliant app - IXP
>> Manager).  I also would tag Philip Smith (NSRC and father of BGP and LINX),
>> Christian O'Flaherty - one of my partners in crime on IXP build, Hisham
>> Ibrahim (formerly with AfriNIC and now with RIPE NCC), Jan Zorz (was with
>> ISOC now a v6 evangelist), Karen Rose (formerly with ISOC), Naveed Haq and
>> Aftab Siddiqui (of ISOC), Brent McIntosh (Grenada), and Bevil Wooding
>> (formerly with PCH and now with ARIN).  I also would note the amazing work
>> that the IXP Associations have done around the planet, and note the Peering
>> Forums - PIFs that ISOC with partners like PCH created around the world -
>> except for the US.  AfPIF - the African Peering and Interconnection Forum
>> and CarPIF - the Caribbean Peering and Interconnection Forum, BKNIX, the
>> Bangkok Peering forum.  One can't talk about IXPs without a nod to NOGs
>> (Network Operator Groups).  The US had the first NOG - NANOG, and they have
>> taken off from there.  ISOC uses NOGs, and PIFs, and IXPs, and the RIRs to
>> promote Mutually Agreed Norms for Routing Security (MANRS)...great
>> initiative and I would urge anyone looking at secure routing to chat with
>> them and the RIRs (RPKI etc).
>>
>> Note that ISOC is the only org that has put out multiple studies that
>> show over time and via snapshots the importance of IXPs to build your local
>> Internet, increase resilience, allow for redundancy of nets at the local
>> level, and has tracked how much latency diminishes, performance increases,
>> and how quickly prices drop.
>>
>> Big Telcos in the US nearly killed bottom-up carrier neutral IXPs.  Thank
>> goodness for ISOC, the RIRs (LACNIC, AfriNIC, ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE NCC),
>> ICANN, IETF to a degree, NSRC, PCH, the NOGs, and the Peering Fora for
>> keeping network training, the importance of diverse peering ecosystems, and
>> the IXPs that are making a resurgence in the US.
>>
>> It takes a village.  A well-trained diverse village.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:51 AM Garland McCoy <garland.mccoy@pagcasa.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  Dave, I am sure Jane would agree that THE global master IXP builder is
>>> Bill Woodcock and his colleagues at Packet Clearing House (
>>> https://www.pch.net/) Bill has been doing this for decades (and decades
>>> and decades). I have cced him in so you can circle the wagons. If by any
>>> chance you want SECURE Edges as part of your IXP deployment you should look
>>> up Onclave Networks (see link below)
>>>
>>>  https://onclavenetworks.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 10, 2023, at 9:40 AM, Jane Coffin <jane@connecthumanity.fund>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dave -
>>>
>>> On IXPs - I can give you a lot of global examples.  On the US - less
>>> so.  One of the founders of SF-MIX is at Connect Humanity and is talking to
>>> some folks about neutral/bottom-up IXPs - ISOC style, IFX, Euro-IX, Af-IX,
>>> LAC-IX, and AP-IX style.
>>>
>>> ISOC also has some excellent reports that show the impact of IXPs in
>>> countries - cheaper, better, faster local connectivity - and local
>>> resiliency and redundancy vs tromboning traffic that benefits
>>> transit/transport vs local fabric.
>>>
>>> Jane
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:08 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> While I frequently do not agree with doug´s blog, he does make for
>>>> interesting reading, and oy! a bill to slow things down further... :(
>>>>
>>>> I am also curious as to the state of the cybergeography these days.
>>>> (anyone remember this old project?
>>>>
>>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20060218123215/http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/topology.html
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> I have been researching the state of the IXPs nowadays, and kind of
>>>> wondering if there was a noticeable difference in service quality between
>>>> cities with IXPs and those without. Anyone?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.pch.net/ixp/summary_growth_by_country#!mt-sort=ixp_current%2Cdesc!mt-pivot=ixp_current
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: POTs and PANs <donotreply@wordpress.com>
>>>> Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 4:35 AM
>>>> Subject: [New post] More Mapping Drama
>>>> To: <dave.taht@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: Site logo image] Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting posted: "As if
>>>> the federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen
>>>> (Dem-Nevada) and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162
>>>> that would “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are
>>>> allocated under the Broadband Equity, " POTs and PANs
>>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/> More Mapping Drama
>>>> <https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpotsandpansbyccg.com%2F2023%2F04%2F10%2Fmore-mapping-drama%2F&sr=0&signature=cb143a1d8898a71681aebd52278c0bf3&blog_id=49312101&user=97642389&_e=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&_z=z>
>>>>
>>>> Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting
>>>> Apr 10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2022/12/19/the-individual-fcc-map-challenge/fcc-broadband-map/#main>As
>>>> if the federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen
>>>> (Dem-Nevada) and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162
>>>> that would “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are
>>>> allocated under the Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment Program based
>>>> on those maps”.
>>>>
>>>> If this law is enacted, the distribution of most of the BEAD grant
>>>> funds to States would be delayed by at least six months, probably longer.
>>>> The NTIA has already said that it intends to announce the allocation of the
>>>> $42.5 billion in grants to the states on June 30. The funds are supposed to
>>>> be allocated using the best count of unserved and underserved locations in
>>>> each state on that date. Unserved locations are those that can’t buy
>>>> broadband of at least 25/3 Mbps. Underserved locations are those unable to
>>>> buy broadband with speeds of at least 100/20 Mbps.
>>>>
>>>> To add to the story, FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel recently
>>>> announced that the FCC has largely completed the broadband map updates.
>>>> That announcement surprised the folks in the industry who have been working
>>>> with the map data, since everybody I talk to is still seeing a lot of
>>>> inaccuracies in the maps.
>>>>
>>>> To the FCC’s credit, its vendor CostQuest has been processing thousands
>>>> of individual challenges to the maps daily and has addressed 600 bulk
>>>> challenges that have been filed by States, counties, and other local
>>>> government entities. In making the announcement, Rosenworcel said that the
>>>> new map has added over one million new locations to the broadband map –
>>>> homes and businesses that were missed in the creation of the first version
>>>> of the map last fall.
>>>>
>>>> But the FCC map has two important components that must be correct for
>>>> the overall maps to be correct. The first is the mapping fabric that is
>>>> supposed to identify every location in the country that is a potential
>>>> broadband customer. I view this as a nearly impossible task. The US Census
>>>> spends many billions every ten years to identify the addresses of residents
>>>> and businesses in the country. CostQuest tried to duplicate the same thing
>>>> on a much smaller budget and with the time pressure of the maps being used
>>>> to allocate these grants. It’s challenging to count potential broadband
>>>> customers. I wrote a blog last year
>>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2022/09/19/the-fcc-mapping-fabric/> that
>>>> outlined a few of the dozens of issues that must be addressed to get an
>>>> accurate map. It’s hard to think that CostQuest somehow figured out all of
>>>> these complicated questions in the last six months.
>>>>
>>>> Even if the fabric is much improved, the more important issue is that
>>>> the accuracy of the broadband map is reliant on two issues that are
>>>> reported by ISPs – the coverage area where an ISP should be able to connect
>>>> a new customer within ten days of a request, and the broadband speeds that
>>>> are available to a home or business at each location.
>>>>
>>>> ISPs are pretty much free to claim whatever they want. While there has
>>>> been a lot of work done to challenge the fabric and the location of
>>>> possible customers – it’s a lot harder to challenge the coverage claims of
>>>> specific ISPs. A true challenge would require many millions of individual
>>>> challenges about the broadband that is available at each home.
>>>>
>>>> Just consider my own home. The national broadband map says there are
>>>> ten ISPs available at my address. Several I’ve never heard of, and I’m
>>>> willing to bet that at least a few of them can’t serve me – but since I’m
>>>> already buying broadband from an ISP, I can’t think of any reason that
>>>> would lead me to challenge the claims of the ISPs I’m not using. The FCC
>>>> thinks that the challenge process will somehow fix the coverage issue – I
>>>> can’t imagine that more than a tiny fraction of folks are ever going to
>>>> care enough to go through the FCC map challenge process – or even know that
>>>> the broadband map exists.
>>>>
>>>> The FCC mapping has also not yet figured out how to come to grips with
>>>> broadband coverage claimed by wireless ISPs. It’s not hard looking through
>>>> the FCC data to find numerous WISPs that claim large coverage areas. In
>>>> real life, the availability of a wireless connection is complicated. The
>>>> FCC reporting is in the process of requiring wireless carriers to report
>>>> using a ‘heat map’ that shows the strength of the wireless signal at
>>>> various distances from each individual radio. But even these heat maps
>>>> won’t tell the full story. WISPs are sometimes able to find ways to serve
>>>> customers that are not within easy reach of a tower. But just like with
>>>> cellphone coverage, there are usually plenty of dead zones around a radio
>>>> that can’t be reached but that will still be claimed on a heat map - heat
>>>> maps are nothing more than a rough approximation of actual coverage. It’s
>>>> hard to imagine that wireless coverage areas will ever be fully accurate.
>>>>
>>>> DSL coverage over telephone copper is equally impossible to map
>>>> correctly, and there are still places where DSL is claimed but which can't
>>>> be served.
>>>>
>>>> Broadband speeds are even harder to challenge. Under the FCC mapping
>>>> rules, ISPs are allowed to claim marketing speeds. If an ISP markets
>>>> broadband as capable of 100/20 Mbps, they can claim that speed on the
>>>> broadband map. It doesn’t matter if the actual broadband delivered is only
>>>> a fraction of that speed. There are so many factors that affect broadband
>>>> speeds that the maps will never accurately depict the speeds folks can
>>>> really buy. It’s amazingly disingenuous for the FCC to say the maps are
>>>> accurate. The best we could ever hope for is that the maps will be better
>>>> if, and only if ISPs scrupulously follow the reporting rules – but nobody
>>>> thinks that is going to happen.
>>>>
>>>> I understand the frustration of the Senators who are suggesting this
>>>> legislation. But I also think that we’ll never get an accurate set of maps.
>>>> Don’t forget that Congress created the requirement to use the maps to
>>>> allocate the BEAD grant dollars. Grant funding could have been done in
>>>> other ways that didn't relay on the maps. I don’t think it’s going to make
>>>> much difference if we delay six months, a year, or four years – the maps
>>>> are going to remain consistently inconsistent.
>>>> Comment
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>>>> --
>>>> AMA March 31:
>>>> https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht
>>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
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>>> Garland T. McCoy | Co-Founder & Executive Director | PAgCASA (Precision
>>> Ag
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>>> Syracuse University
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> AMA March 31: https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht
>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
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Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC

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Re: [LibreQoS] Fwd: [New post] More Mapping Drama

[Dave Taht]

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Dear Brian:

Do you think you could give the NTIA and BEAD folk a little advice as to
how to go about improving rural american access?

On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 8:33 AM Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for sharing,
>
> Are you aware that after receiving ISOC training at the INET 99 networking
> workshop for developing countries in San Jose way back in 1999 - I went
> back to my (then) home country, Kenya, and built/started KIXP with
> assistance from Cisco and hands on support from Barry Raveendran Greene
> (formerly Cisco)?
>
> Thereafter and for next 8 odd years as GM for AfrISPA (African ISP
> Association) I turned up or helped turn up IXPs in about 12 other African
> countries - mostly funded under a project called “Catalysing Access to ICTs
> in Africa” funded by UKs DFID, Canada’s IDRC and others.
>
> I even did a couple of trips with Bill Woodcock in Africa and Asia.
>
> Ta,
>
> Brian
>
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 at 4:28 PM, Dave Taht via LibreQoS <
> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>> I would like to bring back the IXP concepts in the USA.
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: Jane Coffin <jane@connecthumanity.fund>
>> Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [New post] More Mapping Drama
>> To: Garland McCoy <garland.mccoy@pagcasa.org>
>> Cc: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>, National Broadband Mapping
>> Coalition <bbcoalition@marconisociety.org>, Bill Woodcock <woody@pch.net>
>>
>>
>> Actually.  Bill is one of the IXP masters, but....
>>
>>  ISOC has done a helluva lot of IXP build around the world, and I would
>> tip my hat to Michuki Mwangi (ISOC) and Nishal Goburdhan (PCH) along with
>> some folks at Netnod (Swedish exchange), and INEX (Irish exchange - used
>> those cats for training and they came up with the brilliant app - IXP
>> Manager).  I also would tag Philip Smith (NSRC and father of BGP and LINX),
>> Christian O'Flaherty - one of my partners in crime on IXP build, Hisham
>> Ibrahim (formerly with AfriNIC and now with RIPE NCC), Jan Zorz (was with
>> ISOC now a v6 evangelist), Karen Rose (formerly with ISOC), Naveed Haq and
>> Aftab Siddiqui (of ISOC), Brent McIntosh (Grenada), and Bevil Wooding
>> (formerly with PCH and now with ARIN).  I also would note the amazing work
>> that the IXP Associations have done around the planet, and note the Peering
>> Forums - PIFs that ISOC with partners like PCH created around the world -
>> except for the US.  AfPIF - the African Peering and Interconnection Forum
>> and CarPIF - the Caribbean Peering and Interconnection Forum, BKNIX, the
>> Bangkok Peering forum.  One can't talk about IXPs without a nod to NOGs
>> (Network Operator Groups).  The US had the first NOG - NANOG, and they have
>> taken off from there.  ISOC uses NOGs, and PIFs, and IXPs, and the RIRs to
>> promote Mutually Agreed Norms for Routing Security (MANRS)...great
>> initiative and I would urge anyone looking at secure routing to chat with
>> them and the RIRs (RPKI etc).
>>
>> Note that ISOC is the only org that has put out multiple studies that
>> show over time and via snapshots the importance of IXPs to build your local
>> Internet, increase resilience, allow for redundancy of nets at the local
>> level, and has tracked how much latency diminishes, performance increases,
>> and how quickly prices drop.
>>
>> Big Telcos in the US nearly killed bottom-up carrier neutral IXPs.  Thank
>> goodness for ISOC, the RIRs (LACNIC, AfriNIC, ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE NCC),
>> ICANN, IETF to a degree, NSRC, PCH, the NOGs, and the Peering Fora for
>> keeping network training, the importance of diverse peering ecosystems, and
>> the IXPs that are making a resurgence in the US.
>>
>> It takes a village.  A well-trained diverse village.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:51 AM Garland McCoy <garland.mccoy@pagcasa.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  Dave, I am sure Jane would agree that THE global master IXP builder is
>>> Bill Woodcock and his colleagues at Packet Clearing House (
>>> https://www.pch.net/) Bill has been doing this for decades (and decades
>>> and decades). I have cced him in so you can circle the wagons. If by any
>>> chance you want SECURE Edges as part of your IXP deployment you should look
>>> up Onclave Networks (see link below)
>>>
>>>  https://onclavenetworks.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 10, 2023, at 9:40 AM, Jane Coffin <jane@connecthumanity.fund>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dave -
>>>
>>> On IXPs - I can give you a lot of global examples.  On the US - less
>>> so.  One of the founders of SF-MIX is at Connect Humanity and is talking to
>>> some folks about neutral/bottom-up IXPs - ISOC style, IFX, Euro-IX, Af-IX,
>>> LAC-IX, and AP-IX style.
>>>
>>> ISOC also has some excellent reports that show the impact of IXPs in
>>> countries - cheaper, better, faster local connectivity - and local
>>> resiliency and redundancy vs tromboning traffic that benefits
>>> transit/transport vs local fabric.
>>>
>>> Jane
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:08 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> While I frequently do not agree with doug´s blog, he does make for
>>>> interesting reading, and oy! a bill to slow things down further... :(
>>>>
>>>> I am also curious as to the state of the cybergeography these days.
>>>> (anyone remember this old project?
>>>>
>>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20060218123215/http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/topology.html
>>>> )
>>>>
>>>> I have been researching the state of the IXPs nowadays, and kind of
>>>> wondering if there was a noticeable difference in service quality between
>>>> cities with IXPs and those without. Anyone?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.pch.net/ixp/summary_growth_by_country#!mt-sort=ixp_current%2Cdesc!mt-pivot=ixp_current
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>> From: POTs and PANs <donotreply@wordpress.com>
>>>> Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 4:35 AM
>>>> Subject: [New post] More Mapping Drama
>>>> To: <dave.taht@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: Site logo image] Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting posted: "As if
>>>> the federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen
>>>> (Dem-Nevada) and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162
>>>> that would “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are
>>>> allocated under the Broadband Equity, " POTs and PANs
>>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/> More Mapping Drama
>>>> <https://public-api.wordpress.com/bar/?stat=groovemails-events&bin=wpcom_email_click&redirect_to=https%3A%2F%2Fpotsandpansbyccg.com%2F2023%2F04%2F10%2Fmore-mapping-drama%2F&sr=0&signature=cb143a1d8898a71681aebd52278c0bf3&blog_id=49312101&user=97642389&_e=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&_z=z>
>>>>
>>>> Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting
>>>> Apr 10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2022/12/19/the-individual-fcc-map-challenge/fcc-broadband-map/#main>As
>>>> if the federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen
>>>> (Dem-Nevada) and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162
>>>> that would “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are
>>>> allocated under the Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment Program based
>>>> on those maps”.
>>>>
>>>> If this law is enacted, the distribution of most of the BEAD grant
>>>> funds to States would be delayed by at least six months, probably longer.
>>>> The NTIA has already said that it intends to announce the allocation of the
>>>> $42.5 billion in grants to the states on June 30. The funds are supposed to
>>>> be allocated using the best count of unserved and underserved locations in
>>>> each state on that date. Unserved locations are those that can’t buy
>>>> broadband of at least 25/3 Mbps. Underserved locations are those unable to
>>>> buy broadband with speeds of at least 100/20 Mbps.
>>>>
>>>> To add to the story, FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel recently
>>>> announced that the FCC has largely completed the broadband map updates.
>>>> That announcement surprised the folks in the industry who have been working
>>>> with the map data, since everybody I talk to is still seeing a lot of
>>>> inaccuracies in the maps.
>>>>
>>>> To the FCC’s credit, its vendor CostQuest has been processing thousands
>>>> of individual challenges to the maps daily and has addressed 600 bulk
>>>> challenges that have been filed by States, counties, and other local
>>>> government entities. In making the announcement, Rosenworcel said that the
>>>> new map has added over one million new locations to the broadband map –
>>>> homes and businesses that were missed in the creation of the first version
>>>> of the map last fall.
>>>>
>>>> But the FCC map has two important components that must be correct for
>>>> the overall maps to be correct. The first is the mapping fabric that is
>>>> supposed to identify every location in the country that is a potential
>>>> broadband customer. I view this as a nearly impossible task. The US Census
>>>> spends many billions every ten years to identify the addresses of residents
>>>> and businesses in the country. CostQuest tried to duplicate the same thing
>>>> on a much smaller budget and with the time pressure of the maps being used
>>>> to allocate these grants. It’s challenging to count potential broadband
>>>> customers. I wrote a blog last year
>>>> <https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2022/09/19/the-fcc-mapping-fabric/> that
>>>> outlined a few of the dozens of issues that must be addressed to get an
>>>> accurate map. It’s hard to think that CostQuest somehow figured out all of
>>>> these complicated questions in the last six months.
>>>>
>>>> Even if the fabric is much improved, the more important issue is that
>>>> the accuracy of the broadband map is reliant on two issues that are
>>>> reported by ISPs – the coverage area where an ISP should be able to connect
>>>> a new customer within ten days of a request, and the broadband speeds that
>>>> are available to a home or business at each location.
>>>>
>>>> ISPs are pretty much free to claim whatever they want. While there has
>>>> been a lot of work done to challenge the fabric and the location of
>>>> possible customers – it’s a lot harder to challenge the coverage claims of
>>>> specific ISPs. A true challenge would require many millions of individual
>>>> challenges about the broadband that is available at each home.
>>>>
>>>> Just consider my own home. The national broadband map says there are
>>>> ten ISPs available at my address. Several I’ve never heard of, and I’m
>>>> willing to bet that at least a few of them can’t serve me – but since I’m
>>>> already buying broadband from an ISP, I can’t think of any reason that
>>>> would lead me to challenge the claims of the ISPs I’m not using. The FCC
>>>> thinks that the challenge process will somehow fix the coverage issue – I
>>>> can’t imagine that more than a tiny fraction of folks are ever going to
>>>> care enough to go through the FCC map challenge process – or even know that
>>>> the broadband map exists.
>>>>
>>>> The FCC mapping has also not yet figured out how to come to grips with
>>>> broadband coverage claimed by wireless ISPs. It’s not hard looking through
>>>> the FCC data to find numerous WISPs that claim large coverage areas. In
>>>> real life, the availability of a wireless connection is complicated. The
>>>> FCC reporting is in the process of requiring wireless carriers to report
>>>> using a ‘heat map’ that shows the strength of the wireless signal at
>>>> various distances from each individual radio. But even these heat maps
>>>> won’t tell the full story. WISPs are sometimes able to find ways to serve
>>>> customers that are not within easy reach of a tower. But just like with
>>>> cellphone coverage, there are usually plenty of dead zones around a radio
>>>> that can’t be reached but that will still be claimed on a heat map - heat
>>>> maps are nothing more than a rough approximation of actual coverage. It’s
>>>> hard to imagine that wireless coverage areas will ever be fully accurate.
>>>>
>>>> DSL coverage over telephone copper is equally impossible to map
>>>> correctly, and there are still places where DSL is claimed but which can't
>>>> be served.
>>>>
>>>> Broadband speeds are even harder to challenge. Under the FCC mapping
>>>> rules, ISPs are allowed to claim marketing speeds. If an ISP markets
>>>> broadband as capable of 100/20 Mbps, they can claim that speed on the
>>>> broadband map. It doesn’t matter if the actual broadband delivered is only
>>>> a fraction of that speed. There are so many factors that affect broadband
>>>> speeds that the maps will never accurately depict the speeds folks can
>>>> really buy. It’s amazingly disingenuous for the FCC to say the maps are
>>>> accurate. The best we could ever hope for is that the maps will be better
>>>> if, and only if ISPs scrupulously follow the reporting rules – but nobody
>>>> thinks that is going to happen.
>>>>
>>>> I understand the frustration of the Senators who are suggesting this
>>>> legislation. But I also think that we’ll never get an accurate set of maps.
>>>> Don’t forget that Congress created the requirement to use the maps to
>>>> allocate the BEAD grant dollars. Grant funding could have been done in
>>>> other ways that didn't relay on the maps. I don’t think it’s going to make
>>>> much difference if we delay six months, a year, or four years – the maps
>>>> are going to remain consistently inconsistent.
>>>> Comment
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AMA March 31:
>>>> https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht
>>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>>>>
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>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/CAA93jw7BmWMw-yeovaQsC-sK2Ufdzp3Dnv-hT4hdqBGoOwjFxg%40mail.gmail.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/CAA93jw7BmWMw-yeovaQsC-sK2Ufdzp3Dnv-hT4hdqBGoOwjFxg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to BBCoalition+unsubscribe@marconisociety.org.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/CAAk_8j0vm0Gsj%3DmOP0LLw3C-kUhk8knZaKK-BPXPSB4B8e1vnQ%40mail.gmail.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/CAAk_8j0vm0Gsj%3DmOP0LLw3C-kUhk8knZaKK-BPXPSB4B8e1vnQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>> Garland T. McCoy | Co-Founder & Executive Director | PAgCASA (Precision
>>> Ag
>>> Connectivity & Accuracy Stakeholder Alliance) | www.pagcasa.org
>>> <http://www.pagcasa.org>  | garland.mccoy@pagcasa.org
>>> <mailto:garland.mccoy@pagcasa.org> | Adjunct Professor,
>>> Syracuse University
>>> iSchool | gmccoy@syr.edu <mailto:gmccoy@syr.edu>  | 202-906-0654
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> AMA March 31: https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht
>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>> _______________________________________________
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>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
>>
>

-- 
Podcast:
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Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos

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