From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x436.google.com (mail-wr1-x436.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::436]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7067D3B2A4 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2022 11:55:52 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-wr1-x436.google.com with SMTP id b12so6977134wrn.2 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2022 08:55:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=RvZKvySzScxbEQNMAduhzshj+fTx7Zgv+unL5rZLEH0=; b=TaPh0FlXW9CESLhzgbfnVU50CXTiXhW89znaxNgi3l+iAl3nPFCfk8rkUqHjre7Wp5 zXI9rwfCdZCU3SY2p76Dcq/0xGxJLS5nkrNOTJ+F2lc39i374829mcov5HduRLlWwGse temId1jQ4StRJnwr8GVuWXLQ+ht0t/MIIMpqpPEeboekwOtfxXGEs+E7N4QVKQ/ntTdr pgf5BCC5zIHBJCU6UPp/FW9QSmFVr8SsYhQORVzB0yUwBtgKsl4JFoKTu2ACS6p2Esgf +1aiU86HLClxMzWlftZ2S6YdrMm5QaaI/7VnjjW+ZFakUgEb88IqSA3JBskbgH/MmnKj ukcQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=RvZKvySzScxbEQNMAduhzshj+fTx7Zgv+unL5rZLEH0=; b=h3h4PqFnF3PoAQZn6ZyViYB2O8aayUCa6HR1JvAqOZzB372ZMSeZ2kB+Ce3P3nOo4n F6nrrby/Qro5AXoaMuaWHm6sppDJDg4ffBDtq1Tr3kNeSc5EwLbWv2OVrJoL5Klgeae1 KdnttvsEF8yzf7rBUpQliRO0sgbnmIrq9Cq4C/cHzYf91L5x4Vo7V43GZIh1eUMZu0OH 2l/RY3gwsvrAX6iiIAtWGfiRGK8eQpKgRuUAFDydKzMS7LW/T/iOaz+YoJROSQIqsig1 JRTN+ilndMl6q9GDNUaWb6Y+S/LDJ8O6DqG+gr4ThJvbKNRjM7MDDwmUNgS9Hc7o995K ZHgw== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pl+eDrU7Y9/9sSxXnNvEuiWZZtIpK02HsHIDLfhinfLaGgmt3Jw LAwV8TWyKn+8fqpLajhHlQcPQjxpOsKQwpILgp0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf5SZQW4XdPkYt8cFCjlO0RfYERdTGT9vr8n1/AcV2YQ4zbst/j696Z6EiqrS59ZePxRQKEr8Ck5p9NZYrBK4W8= X-Received: by 2002:adf:ead2:0:b0:23a:ce24:1bf0 with SMTP id o18-20020adfead2000000b0023ace241bf0mr2671726wrn.383.1669049751224; Mon, 21 Nov 2022 08:55:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6376757B.5060906@jmaimon.com> <3bbf43bb-e137-c95c-cff6-44f0e8e05e0d@tinka.africa> <63777027.3000302@jmaimon.com> <7e66e85a-fc26-a980-7f0d-599469633417@tinka.africa> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 08:55:36 -0800 Message-ID: To: dan Cc: libreqos , Mike Puchol , Nick Feamster Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] 500/household X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:55:52 -0000 I don't have much recent info on the state of Africa... mike and nick, cc'd, have active projects there. On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 8:43 AM dan wrote: > > Having done some engineering working areas with average incomes in the $1= 5/month range and all services being provided by NGOs and gov aid... most p= eople I talk to really have no idea how internet access works in less privi= leged parts of the world. My experience w/OLPC is now over a decade old. But basics like power interruptions 6 times a day or longer, copper theft, water supplies, are often lacking. My take on things since... is a phone with some internet access is a necessity, but a computer or laptop, not so much, so much business is just done on the phone, and I'm under the impression (?) whatsapp is really dominating down there as a marketplace and communications mechanism. I was a huge fan of UPSes, down in Nicaragua, as rebooting even a semi-complicated network takes minutes, and that notion was foreign even to the coffee shops and cafe's that made their living from internet access to tourists. On the other hand, when the network was down, it was almost always a nice day outside. > I think much of the western world has lost sight of what the internet mea= ns because it's taken for granted. +10 > Now it's how our netflix comes in or how our kids get their fortnite etc.= Covid definitely woke many up because people had to do work from home, bu= t it's still just not the big of a priority in peoples minds. I mean, amer= icans will suffer through terrible service on a $50 plan and have to work f= rom home on that while having a $300 per adult cigarette bill. Go to Nep= al, internet bill comes before many things, they'll even skip a meal to kee= p their internet service working. Cigs are cheaper in places like this. /me hides > Go to rural Nepal or Cambodia and it's the only thing that links them to = the rest of the world, and primarily via messaging apps. Maybe 5Mbps of un= reliable connectivity for everyone to share. It is still remarkable to me how many have apple phones. > On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 11:58 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS wrote: >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >> From: Eric Kuhnke >> Date: Sun, Nov 20, 2022, 2:58 PM >> Subject: Re: Alternative Re: ipv4/25s and above >> To: Mark Tinka >> Cc: >> >> >> If I had a dollar for every person who has lived their entire life in a = high-income western country (US, Canada, western Europe, etc) and has zero = personal experience in developing-nation telecom/ISP operations and their u= nique operational requirements, yet thinks they've qualified to offer an op= inion on it... >> >> People should go look at some of the WISPs in the Philippines for an exa= mple of ISPs building last and middle mile infrastructure on extremely limi= ted budgets. Or really just about anywhere else where the residential broad= band market has households where the entire household monthly income is the= equivalent of $500 USD. >> >> >> >> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 at 04:59, Mark Tinka wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 11/19/22 05:50, Abraham Y. Chen wrote: >>> >>> > Dear Owen: >>> > >>> > 1) "... Africa ... They don=E2=80=99t really have a lot of alternativ= es. ...": >>> > Actually, there is, simple and in plain sight. Please have a look at >>> > the below IETF Draft: >>> >>> It's most amusing, to me, how Africa needs to be told how to be... >>> >>> Some folk just can't help themselves. >>> >>> Mark. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> LibreQoS mailing list >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos --=20 This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666656= 07352320-FXtz Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC