Oh, the image from waveform was late to load. In the past months starlink has gone from hundreds of ms of bufferbloat related latency to zero on the upload and a mere 31ms on the download. For those that don´t know: that is better than comcast, most fiber, all dsl, and most (non-libreqos or preseem using) FWA, by a mile. On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 3:02 PM Dave Taht wrote: > he also had a waveform result as best as I recall. Simpler than running > flent. > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 2:23 PM Frantisek Borsik < > frantisek.borsik@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Here are the tests Dave was talking about: >> >> [image: image.png] >> rrul_be-2024-04-28T074258.845273.starlink-long-ipv4-1-flows.flent.gz >> >> tcp_ndown-2024-04-28T074032.855495.starlink-long-ipv4-1-flows.flent.gz >> >> tcp_nup-2024-04-28T074143.785018.starlink-long-ipv4-1-flows.flent.gz >> >> >> All the best, >> >> Frank >> >> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik >> >> >> >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik >> >> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 >> >> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 >> >> Skype: casioa5302ca >> >> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 30, 2024 at 11:08 PM Dave Taht via Starlink < >> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >>> Just fq codel or cake everything and you get all that. >>> >>> Libreqos is free software for those that do not want to update their >>> data plane. Perhaps we should do a public demo of what it can do for every >>> tech on the planet. Dsl benefits, fiber does also (but it is the stats that >>> matter more on fiber because the customer wifi becomes bloated) >>> >>> Starlink merely fq codeled their wifi and did some aqm work (not codel I >>> think) to get the amazing results they are getting today. I don't have the >>> waveform test results handy but they are amazing. I feel a sea change in >>> the wind... >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 12:51 PM Eugene Y Chang via Starlink < >>> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Colin, >>>> I am overwhelmed with all the reasons that prevent low(er) or >>>> consistent latency. >>>> I think that our best ISP offerings should deliver graceful, agile, or >>>> nimble service. Sure, handle all the high-volume data. The high-volume >>>> service just shouldn’t preclude graceful service. Yes, the current ISP >>>> practices fall short. Can we help them improve their service? >>>> >>>> Am I asking too much? >>>> >>>> Gene >>>> ---------------------------------------------- >>>> Eugene Chang >>>> IEEE Life Senior Member >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 30, 2024, at 9:31 AM, Colin_Higbie via Starlink < >>>> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Gene, >>>> >>>> I think the lion's share of other people (many brilliant people here) >>>> on this thread are focused on keeping latency down when under load. I >>>> generally just read and don't contribute on those discussions, because >>>> that's not my area of expertise. I only posted my point on bandwidth, not >>>> to detract from the importance of reducing latency, but to correct what I >>>> believed to be an important error on minimum bandwidth required to be able >>>> to perform standard Internet functions. >>>> >>>> To my surprise, there was pushback on the figure, so I've responded to >>>> try to educate this group on streaming usage in the hope that the people >>>> working on the latency problem under load (core reason for this group to >>>> exist) can also be aware of the minimum bandwidth needs to ensure they >>>> don't plan based on bad assumptions. >>>> >>>> For a single user, minimum bandwidth (independent of latency) needs to >>>> be at least 25Mbps assuming the goal is to provide access to all standard >>>> Internet services. Anything short of that will deny users access to the >>>> primary streaming services, and more specifically won't be able to watch 4K >>>> HDR video, which is the market standard for streaming services today and >>>> likely will remain at that level for the next several years. >>>> >>>> I think it's fine to offer lower-cost options that don't deliver 4K HDR >>>> video (not everyone cares about that), but at least 25Mbps should be >>>> available to an Internet customer for any new Internet service rollout. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Colin >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Starlink On Behalf Of >>>> starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 3:05 PM >>>> To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> Subject: Starlink Digest, Vol 37, Issue 15 >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2024 09:04:43 -1000 >>>> From: Eugene Y Chang >>>> To: Colin_Higbie , Dave Taht via Starlink >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] It’s the Latency, FCC >>>> Message-ID: <438B1BC4-D465-497A-B6BA-700E1D411036@ieee.org> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> I am always surprised how complicated these discussions become. >>>> (Surprised mostly because I forgot the kind of issues this community care >>>> about.) The discussion doesn’t shed light on the following scenarios. >>>> >>>> While watching stream content, activating controls needed to switch >>>> content sometimes (often?) have long pauses. I attribute that to buffer >>>> bloat and high latency. >>>> >>>> With a happy household user watching streaming media, a second user >>>> could have terrible shopping experience with Amazon. The interactive >>>> response could be (is often) horrible. (Personally, I would be doing email >>>> and working on a shared doc. The Amazon analogy probably applies to more >>>> people.) >>>> >>>> How can we deliver graceful performance to both persons in a household? >>>> Is seeking graceful performance too complicated to improve? >>>> (I said “graceful” to allow technical flexibility.) >>>> >>>> Gene >>>> ---------------------------------------------- >>>> Eugene Chang >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Starlink mailing list >>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Starlink mailing list >>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>> >> > > -- > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVFWSyMp3xg&t=1098s Waves Podcast > Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos > -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVFWSyMp3xg&t=1098s Waves Podcast Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos