From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yb1-xb2a.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE4033CB43 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 23:59:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2a.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-d9a58aa4983so4073868276.0 for ; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 20:59:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697342341; x=1697947141; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=N/+v9IFtPxdk+G6DCadgFwMGhJ1Qw3hA23WkC9zAU4I=; b=ldXdZnTxiom9P20QQkbqxkP9IM0jhRKG+7Bb5ZGhfS7FjFXlYnBttTXE8X9+0jOQMy KGITett7N/TQ7zJ+qJOSzyfeetW+JvLD3x4lFK0m8C7sHGXTEn/ppSPJqPCS7qswN02O JknbhLWnCK9B6zL9VOqhfPHHtFrMucSid1AmlGO3U5m3ofF5VBW/qT61InGGInUt2Bay ZI9RdeqSg9t09r6PcAMWK7VUJyxUJ8w8TXEwrXp0/L5nMzLn31Laug7v9Os88/PumGB8 cihXysmNk4MTFaIkrY6LJWWrc0XzPXJiTjnai/irinop8G4adwe9nA86jqkaAb+BtDIe RlEg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697342341; x=1697947141; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=N/+v9IFtPxdk+G6DCadgFwMGhJ1Qw3hA23WkC9zAU4I=; b=GmQMTWlXnjWwjNxUGm1pG87OAcTjbr3uiNRQnK0klQD8j79NLiI70VVdoIMETChqkd A8BOgQS9QyIlCeIsnyFYGHKMa8E6b/y9tW4iwA2efdJcnG6ovp51D7pHEaSL4jiCqs8m 5J/zmitM7AP/QDk9RnE3vnnHMN2/Ss7y1tezaOWRGLTr0ai3zXl30uvyGnXdKMlGD5QK 2+oWhy95ZzB6avRMRPjdsQYNCDlXEL/jZW/o/7pBcGTwJWPgyRQG4o9dcWrVZAVWXV9i dhnlhRBSktT2lSwr4g4V+j9j9P8gbrdbuIzn6AyCzpJrKdlCfVj5L+jYMp2y4r+sITF7 ublQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxPq6rRFa5ffBQnwwfoBH9/YIYKYur8qXamZOdmxrZ3FPAadUIE hYU3+bv/L8OsaY3sBEpCR7Em7wYnZMKeqB+lOdk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHCXIkP+v79+4JhGZc4EJnaRc0C3mWmbba0ac2UvjBBSBQTDKbfKcIP1sarLpfpDqAQT8TnDYZ3I7K+1qB2oP8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:a08:b0:5a7:a959:337 with SMTP id cg8-20020a05690c0a0800b005a7a9590337mr15971723ywb.27.1697342341020; Sat, 14 Oct 2023 20:59:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 20:54:14 -0700 Message-ID: To: thejoff@mail.com, libreqos Cc: le berger des photons Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [LibreQoS] shared wireless access X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2023 03:59:01 -0000 Sorry about that. this list is intended to be more political in scope. Moving the nnagain list to the bcc. The libreqos list and chatroom has some smart wisps on it, but your conditions are a bit vague? Could you describe your scenario more fully? There are many mesh network types out there. I am most familiar with openwrt-derived solutions on pre-802.11ax. It is possible using older wifi tech (that supports adhoc mode) to build a highly redundant mesh of connecting everything to everything. Examples of that include guifi, wlan-slovinia, nyc-mesh, freifunk, etc. But people tend to rebuild/reflash their own routers to support it fully. If you are talking about having more than one exit node from a mesh, the babel protocol is sometimes used for that. (not clear what you are asking) Other examples today might include ubnt's mesh stuff, or tarana's NLOS wan, or tachyon... but there are many products in the market, and help can be found in a couple different chatrooms. On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 8:41=E2=80=AFPM le berger des photons via Nnagain wrote: > > as interesting as this all is, this wasn't the discussion I'm looking fo= r. Perhaps you know of somewhere I can go to find what I'm looking for. I= 'm looking to figure out how to share two different accesses among the same= group of clients depending on varying conditions of the main wifi links wh= ich serve them all. Thanks for any direction. > > On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 2:25=E2=80=AFAM Dave Cohen via Nnagain wrote: >> >> I=E2=80=99m a couple years removed from dealing with this on the provide= r side but the focus has shifted rapidly to adding core capacity and large = capacity ports to the extent that smaller capacity ports like 1 Gbps aren= =E2=80=99t going to see much more price compression. Cost per bit will come= down at higher tiers but there simply isn=E2=80=99t enough focus at lower = levels at the hardware providers to afford carriers more price compression = at 1 Gbps, even 10 Gbps. I would expect further price compression in access= costs but not really in transit costs below 10 Gbps. >> >> In general I agree that IXs continue to proliferate relative to quantity= , throughput and geographic reach, almost to the degree that mainland Europ= e has been covered for years. In my home market of Atlanta, I=E2=80=99m awa= re of at least four IXs that have been established here or entered the mark= et in the last three years - there were only two major ones prior to that. = This is a net positive for a wide variety of reasons but I don=E2=80=99t th= ink it=E2=80=99s created much of an impact in terms of pulling down transit= prices. There are a few reasons for this, but primarily because that growt= h hasn=E2=80=99t really displaced transit demand (at least in my view) and = has really been more about a relatively stable set of IX participants creat= ing more resiliency and driving other performance improvements in that leg = of the peering ecosystem. >> >> Dave Cohen >> craetdave@gmail.com >> >> > On Oct 14, 2023, at 7:02 PM, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote: >> > >> > =EF=BB=BFThis set of trendlines was very interesting. Unfortunately th= e data >> > stops in 2015. Does anyone have more recent data? >> > >> > https://drpeering.net/white-papers/Internet-Transit-Pricing-Historical= -And-Projected.php >> > >> > I believe a gbit circuit that an ISP can resell still runs at about >> > $900 - $1.4k (?) in the usa? How about elsewhere? >> > >> > ... >> > >> > I am under the impression that many IXPs remain very successful, >> > states without them suffer, and I also find the concept of doing micro >> > IXPs at the city level, appealing, and now achievable with cheap gear. >> > Finer grained cross connects between telco and ISP and IXP would lower >> > latencies across town quite hugely... >> > >> > PS I hear ARIN is planning on dropping the price for, and bundling 3 >> > BGP AS numbers at a time, as of the end of this year, also. >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bo= f.html >> > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Nnagain mailing list >> > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain >> _______________________________________________ >> Nnagain mailing list >> Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain > > _______________________________________________ > Nnagain mailing list > Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain --=20 Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.htm= l Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos