From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm1-x32d.google.com (mail-wm1-x32d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4B2D3B29E for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 13:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32d.google.com with SMTP id l16-20020a05600c4f1000b003c6c0d2a445so7037950wmq.4 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 10:14:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=H730j4E+/+23qkSViXJA1ceRBeCri9CtZ3TL0M/ZqhY=; b=f8utkNmvF9zCfvTXKrlfHb4O/9Gh3/Xf97XJoNlZN0nrHr/De7kvtqswEEHT2wdqm9 1SeCrFM9zueNEzYJEIV+kwJdgqIz5TTEx9Qog/SZR4ATAWq3BRJDTEaI2fvCd9/2iRIc KmRKh8nVk5qf0yNP3yUWdhYM0Ao8rmO7/Fa93GL5qQ43AmKGCOU+5aswV3Zcg5TgwzbN Sl5Ri0fIXq59KaHU95tmvTVzu0OPjA2HAdaMKx2Tp0Ayfsdz9lMEQ55sexKJRd+KNmdi O8T5oieZZapMTX3eXNknRZdzlwxa7TE3INsaILVjzIUvUZqwa/mS8LVtQzx18u7Do3Tv ZLJQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=H730j4E+/+23qkSViXJA1ceRBeCri9CtZ3TL0M/ZqhY=; b=tKXl100CQHkcraViYJsZGuKKvFxU/382PP4bSHyFIujl5aoMYCzWjhpm38kXrbCSRI UsxLSUoDgZ8HjFR89izwGO9R0rqaxwwbLDwEKXWMmd+GIKFtWdCTjJ4/4EwFLc9Ybw0s VKysWNiR2/KVXjHKksgllTYk3x18Q1DKSEs1TvEAEpHcsKDx00EcNueVtFddxsRrs+mh EVnBkV3uNfrsIf3HRbau/5nxhtmisvJmE5QKPB+Wg/aD7bgLiqpI0ZccB6Mty9xTbRvZ I0AYLiQHXaIkwcq2ia7OfB8HFCZb2HAE7xRTMFoy6OkHtftSy3o9rA9phxph8LVnmaBs Ugag== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf3x1ejdNCT89ZEeo0f0plDXcmKz9Z/86LVAABJSHWX0bFsi6gxa mtNbAA2fYToOWqQBMC0MNXXktohEMrF81AA/Pc6S4Oz7hGQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7BExiZ20lbRJpbzlNXsh9jsHMcZLIkd+XsiWkqiTmlm6ueIy0snKJB+cnNcec2rsbZmXnd0FLDBuRqdwNLvk8= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:1906:b0:3c6:f83e:d15f with SMTP id j6-20020a05600c190600b003c6f83ed15fmr27880590wmq.205.1666631694666; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 10:14:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 10:14:41 -0700 Message-ID: To: dan Cc: Herbert Wolverson , libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] ookla speedtest results? X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 17:14:56 -0000 Some of the context of my request for libreqos on vs off is from here, presentation in the wee hours, wed morning. https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6989281945868283904/ On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:48 AM dan via LibreQoS wrote: > > we also have a bunch of 25/5. It would be nice to get some more detailed= numbers from ookla tests. +1! We've argued methods with many a provider, and ookla and samknows are new to this game. As one example I don't know if they use decimal or binary mbits! ... ack-filtering in the libreqos case can and will drop acks in both directions, due to the structure of how htb works in this scenario, at any bandwidth ratio. I *think* it does very little harm but I would use the ack-filter not the aggressive ack filter out of caution. Secondly if you are gathering drop statistics from the higher level htb categories, total drops will go WAY up, and it is best to use the cake drop, ack_drop outputs statistics directly. ack_drops have nothing to do with congestion control and should be ignored in most cases. Also I keep hoping more will pull out ecn marks separately. Public use is way up by e2e transports, and I worry that a high ecn ratio is a e2e network error, which might show up as a big backlog. Presently (in v1.3.), robert (in grafina?) is summing drops + marks. which is a good idea, however perhaps drops, marks and drops+marks would be better. An inverse log scale is needed to plot marks, drops, and ack_drops. I'll always be of the opinion that it's best to run cake on egress at the cpe, first, doing all this work before it hits the wire. Are any of you doing that? Openwrt/dd-wrt/firewalla/mikrotik 7.2? >We also have a lot of Eero units out there, so watching for the eero speed= test would also be great. eero 5s have cake (and fq_codel on the wifi), eero 6s have a somewhat buggy fq_codel offload: https://www.reddit.com/r/eero/comments/u7xm83/gen_2_sqm_vs_gen_3_sqm_stick_= with_gen_2_if_you/ > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 10:31 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQoS wrote: >> >> > sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packet capture fo= r x duration? >> >> That's a good idea (I think there's a service somewhere for finding spee= dtest >> servers?). We're discussing testing the ack-filter feature right now, an= d something >> similar would work well for that. (We have a bunch of 25/5 and similarly= asymmetric >> connections, in theory it'll help...) >> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 10:31 AM dan via LibreQoS wrote: >>> >>> sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packet capture for= x duration? >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:27 AM Dave Taht wrote: >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:20 AM dan wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Dave, I think that 'bouncing' is more CPU time in the browser. I do= n't think it's indicative over what's actually happening. >>>> >>>> A simultaneous packet capture and wireshark plot of the RTTs would >>>> also be helpful. >>>> >>>> > >>>> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:09 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Robert Chac=C3=B3n via LibreQoS >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > I can run an Ookla test in the middle of the night with LibreQoS = off for a bit. >>>> >> >>>> >> Groovy. >>>> >> >>>> >> > From what I recall - without Libre we see download bloat of 300ms= or so. With Libre, it's gone. On waveform we see 0ms added bloat each dire= ction for most clients. >>>> >> >>>> >> The numbers report by speedtest bounce around a lot, and they tend = to >>>> >> pick a lower number as a final result than I'd >>>> >> like. If there's a way to capture a movie of it... >>>> >> > >>>> >> > And I like the "monitor only" mode idea. >>>> >> > Perhaps we could create the HTB tree, but just not attach the CAK= E qdisc? >>>> >> > Technically even HTB could reduce latency by itself on overloaded= APs , so it wouldn't be true passive monitoring, but it would allow us to = compare the before/after of CAKE while still having qdiscs we can point cpu= map-pping to. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Alternatively, maybe we could use eBPF PPing just for this passiv= e monitoring period? >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQoS wrote: >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Are you looking for a shaped result? That'll show "whatever band= width >>>> >> >> is left on the sector" without Libre, and around the customer's = paid-for >>>> >> >> target with Libre (hopefully!). >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> One thing Preseem does well is that their onboarding process inc= ludes >>>> >> >> "leave it in monitoring-only mode" for a week, gathering data be= fore you >>>> >> >> pull the switch (although most ISPs I've talked to just pull the= switch...) >>>> >> >> It's quite enlightening to see a before/after, even with only FQ= _CODEL >>>> >> >> as the shaper. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> We could probably do something similar with a "monitor only" mod= e that >>>> >> >> doesn't enable any queues (is there a TC equivalent to "dummy" o= n >>>> >> >> FreeBSD?). >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS wrote: >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> I am curious if anyone here has speedtest results with libreqos= on and >>>> >> >>> off, and can send a screen shot? >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> -- >>>> >> >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would wo= rk: >>>> >> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity= -6981366665607352320-FXtz >>>> >> >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>> LibreQoS mailing list >>>> >> >>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> >> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >> LibreQoS mailing list >>>> >> >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > -- >>>> >> > Robert Chac=C3=B3n >>>> >> > CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC >>>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>>> >> > LibreQoS mailing list >>>> >> > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -- >>>> >> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >>>> >> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-698= 1366665607352320-FXtz >>>> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> LibreQoS mailing list >>>> >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >>>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-698136= 6665607352320-FXtz >>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> LibreQoS mailing list >>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >> >> _______________________________________________ >> LibreQoS mailing list >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > > _______________________________________________ > LibreQoS mailing list > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos --=20 This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666656= 07352320-FXtz Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC