From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com (mail-wr1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B43703B29E for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 17:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id l14so10866126wrw.2 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:48:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=+ct/0vBO9Ien3GneIB3XPQ6aSxYY3ekzUeHyMdvycls=; b=Kl89qgLa8XcrTR6vF2jMrkQsSJDekO8QrddtA5ot+/sfcdA/MKE0ZLyfZJbwRVEZvb rb7wWPiX7mMUvCxqc1UMIJN5DwbdqUOf/ntYPaX+VDox8BxipLcnUrB/pMzWVeo3ABvF 1K1P3O8cLnDJRYE287j7gilRG/fYLZLYVCzzyfs4nkmZLIDFC/MPrr4Nw0twFOr/rJMK hIChXMVXCHK0rDXcvrIclCmauZh30+gA2jiXFzoKMaL/fF/2EoZdahDPU9NQNYjtyuLH yukRtrKVFWGDx+5zAd3TnESgx7uU2pBaEOx/+LAVWGElCf2oWFM7w0uPZ9OzyTQzYcfr 25Ag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=+ct/0vBO9Ien3GneIB3XPQ6aSxYY3ekzUeHyMdvycls=; b=P3vkcjjIjnEwSxQ1EmbGYH6qG6i10baOhOglYTiQFwUeCWSwpn7x0T71MEcC7LAze4 27DtQMD0G7p9Tov8802gy1NDbuM6bWd+DUrfHp6NTbmwYGJKdyl0kYhLKYYdDj+RLyHw i8nwENyeSuLG+fLkmXbMFVJjpex2sZV8eosNFcS0TGPhvhCdj/wwRf1ZcGBsIDtAZcSD DtRL6tZyh7FE/npebOWdIVX2qb1e69OqgVMirrNzdKlUIJgZ1W1HFwD4ew5FMC5AcgAm SQB0nLTXexQKizPYJsZk9WnkMuKwJEymrdudiyWiprG54YFTlaW5I/m5x2C69T7vX5mm 6Mqg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1F7fwnnSgdRNK/GT/oE5WBIMZ6uqypsFTn1t7QlX5bSIn/Ypdq 4xMAYypfB2agANWr3QV8oKOs5NOkNn6MhcKRcLyUppRSydw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM4m5NL1H23bFy68w7+gplNLX0Vw8bZODpz0FVwuLqQWn+jMwJZIqh+WK0kRmHAqjrJwiY9tsOekpIicwW0G7mg= X-Received: by 2002:adf:f242:0:b0:236:68ef:e76e with SMTP id b2-20020adff242000000b0023668efe76emr7225327wrp.482.1666648109392; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:48:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:48:17 -0700 Message-ID: To: Herbert Wolverson Cc: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000086a68705ebcec04c" Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] Ack-filtering X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 21:48:30 -0000 --00000000000086a68705ebcec04c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I just busted a guy laughing at your annotations. Tahhnk you. There's been a long "misery metrics" thread elsewhere, about how measuring customer satisfaction was more important than packet loss or bandwidth or the other statistics we so often try to interpret. Over here, for example, was this bug: https://github.com/rchac/LibreQoS/issues/126#issuecomment-1286061009 where the OP applied a change that "saved cpu", but in-observably hurt the customer experience, until a few days went by, and they "felt" the change for themselves, and complaints had gone up. Proactively engaging with users to ask how their subjective experience has got better or worse, after making a change, is one way to get feedback. Others include eating your own dogfood, and active measurements like the flent tests, crusader, etc. The ack-filter, should, in general, speed up slow start, which is a good thing in a fully FQ'd and codeled environement. It also accelerates additive increase, same benefits. Downsides include that the TCPs on the other side have to interpolate more. --00000000000086a68705ebcec04c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just busted a guy laughing at your annotations. Tah= hnk you.

There's been a long "misery= metrics" thread elsewhere, about how measuring customer satisfaction = was more important than packet loss or bandwidth or the other statistics we= so often try to interpret.


where the OP applied a ch= ange that "saved cpu", but in-observably hurt the customer experi= ence, until a few days went by,
and they "felt" the cha= nge for themselves, and complaints had gone up.

Proactively engaging with users to ask how their subjective experience h= as got better or worse, after making a change, is one way to get feedback. = Others include eating your own dogfood, and active measurements like the fl= ent tests, crusader,
etc.

The ack-f= ilter, should, in general, speed up slow start, which is a good thing in a = fully FQ'd and codeled environement.
It also accelerates addi= tive increase, same benefits.

Downsides include th= at the TCPs on the other side have to interpolate more.
=C2= =A0

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