From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-x112d.google.com (mail-yw1-x112d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C73F93B2A4; Sun, 24 Sep 2023 16:37:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yw1-x112d.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-59f1dff5298so53015357b3.3; Sun, 24 Sep 2023 13:37:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1695587869; x=1696192669; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=ePg3aarWecYwCtT+GNXilTMZ8x0Edr+yDZmO3kIue+M=; b=a/MCtoPoRgpi+KRZuVKY1mX7EiwZHtG0RRRviwSmbQSVfsAD1ZqPuKYD6K6J8PLX2k vnQ+KTz7TeF2COj7vo3Ub0enbQ4Gwqmi54dPds1uINDfM/prRKnlx5JcwcBV/MY5i4L2 Rnd+T8AqgXbIp8BcaAP4JJqgqKl9Ydk9LUy1Z6hKALqa/dmJRBgEZENl9KndRm9m6Lqr 6ZIAUfBfqektYku8DkDQ/h+i/057DEenh+Qi43X+EH9XhNJP+tsguCxQW0knpmKxMblF w0hAPBg1e6kn9EVS5XeAZIQZ4s6daTB5UQJlYkd1ylicSrG2HIlrKiUtzRj0FzL0s/LD Mrxg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1695587869; x=1696192669; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ePg3aarWecYwCtT+GNXilTMZ8x0Edr+yDZmO3kIue+M=; b=A5UzwzGAaAzcy5JJ7/wmqopB4weL/y/o6QZWlANBgqcpRPeGK1N+TdqyNy/gSkv6Cz RY46QXzuSorEClSL27eS00NKPEghfxOQnvk1oQEJ5pbEt+kBQjoEQo+YykrFJCfNBSqA TBTumDomZ7oBrQVQA1jMtuNj6j3f7ru5MSIx8fAhCMlXyuZMtkXL6LXwbrQo1AJF23BO zW9vVz818hI6PD6ZK7tPQ5cKXoDS5yj7lFi0Xi5sb4+omYI3QlfBz+39e4o14qyfBaOl TirCJnkGZmgTdASPDcR/A2q8ycbYjN72vgN1sjlhNO9cAG93Z5zJGIKIeatpNRLCSC7m 7umA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyR8denD+3ifJ8MEcTc5dcus8s0AHSxHC7WMzUm7TsbSz8VSsTC NGCcxFJqdlyrcZR5FQAk4pwPE+9SDs1xAz8WSSc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFcC4f3k2NdxNZ7CFBGaGKdgNKp/I0oTd9RWpcrHywku4r+JBdPPM/BEhXT1kzdNDw549zXyc44o9C3kHmEczg= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:dc07:0:b0:583:d722:9ae9 with SMTP id f7-20020a0ddc07000000b00583d7229ae9mr4437564ywe.41.1695587867503; Sun, 24 Sep 2023 13:37:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 13:37:34 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Luis A. Cornejo" , libreqos Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] [Starlink] tarana strikes back X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2023 20:37:49 -0000 That particular wisp so broadcasting their activities is deploying "preseem" over tarana to manage their bufferbloat issues with great success... although it would be nice if the tarana cpe uplink radio had it more under control with a smaller fixed size buffer, at least, and less retries in the mac. The right place to manage uplink bufferbloat is at the uplink, not the central controller. Everytime that wisp posts their tarana speedtest number, they show 300ms + buffering on the uplink side, which, while dramatically better than 5g or starlink is still 10x too much.... and I pester them about it. Sometimes they repost with the post-preseem number, sometimes not. (preseem uses fq_codel). The principal complaints about tarana are it is really, really expensive, it uses up a lot of spectrum, and they have a lot more hype than I would like. Because the barrier to entry is so high, many other alternatives may well be more cost-effective. I would certainly like to see, touch, and test a setup myself! I like NLOS (non-line of sight) technologies for incredibly difficult shots... But: My purpose in asking the list here was to ask if the analysis of cell size was correct and reasonable (it certainly looked so to me), and the economic argument that falls out of the resulting information density seems compelling for designing hybrid fiber and wireless networks of all sorts, not as an endorsement of tarana. On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 1:19=E2=80=AFPM Luis A. Cornejo wrote: > > Dave, > > Have you actually seen it in person? How is the bufferbloat situation? Fr= om the videos I've seen from WISPs and stuff Tarana shares on twitter it se= ems to be under control, but they seem very bandwidth oriented. A WISP (Nex= tLink) seems to be deploying them, but it seems that is not near where I am= . I inquired and they said I wasn't LOS to the tower. I responded back as t= o when they will deploy Tarana radios in my area and I got crickets. > > -Luis > > -Luis > > On Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 9:34=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Starlink wrote: >> >> Tarana, which is indeed, delivering one of the most amazing NLOS WISP >> experiences I have ever seen, >> just put out this white paper: >> >> https://www.taranawireless.com/a-comparison-of-next-generation-fwa-vs-le= o-satellite/ >> >> Can anyone question these Starlink numbers for cell size, etc? >> >> -- >> Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.= html >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink --=20 Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.htm= l Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos