From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm1-x32a.google.com (mail-wm1-x32a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E0CB3B29E; Wed, 8 Feb 2023 11:13:40 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-wm1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id l37-20020a05600c1d2500b003dfe46a9801so1897448wms.0; Wed, 08 Feb 2023 08:13:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=tEUS67sXcg67NguJtFn4MmnRBJbDpE4qqlbNs2Ssczc=; b=PHsIW/i9GHkeNIzZ3sGtkdHt4PNP4lzYJjGRamkopPKnU8h37ME3u9dBVccPq44fT7 M1K/Ivx81a0Z/IRes3ZfhKzNNSW2pH7Z/JcFsFOIVjsII04yjp0+7i0ywnuPlyQid1wK 2lnJJvYBMBMbfXYf9Oni13r7j7U6FvG02Wmc8+G8fEew+e+N65MRL19S27rzLHcW/jzh zCGx0MNjg5lOPwPt6nMyto92oSfrNTrmP9Hq17exrZA/PgUhG7jeHinCw/g8nH2hlXCd K2wdxk7AVhl/d9Af0ATvdjhX0aAVine/lnEcJv9I8cRU9T4mGSD964CuGGc0Td8Bp1Yq 7YNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=tEUS67sXcg67NguJtFn4MmnRBJbDpE4qqlbNs2Ssczc=; b=1QA6HoE/49HAYCVOLIZYFwjLw9+4VgMYKFQ83tILQ0QiC7QsPbkO6oMPOlI+rfeSKI WPdyINudbuWxeJiT1qRDf6AHJ6YUO0ms8YHUpfrdE3ZdHH45eFAL4hqVFrzfkvYBF0ep dq8ORSQepYFtc5udFDpD7kpfCRv5HoPUv1S9bjy+PPoSTioSnlxuyx5X4Mb/BtyKW86V RnQjljTGAcUSdRfZW17jnnLIds95q9UIsINAEZQ21HZS5A7OfNiAT5qpdOAz3CKVAD6r ov6PMlwKJ9Xn+hO0p885DFRyqdgD/Ybk1r+4oPh045zYj7dWg/4NvPx/1SsNPq5xJ+kI RUBg== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKVT8UCodwtWoL7MULkKEcrAq1esVmiKOW+cdVmYLuAsctYIWVbo DZkbMmkZBxsKtUw0msdaRX8e6cviMsei9N+D+0sEqU6g X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/AmZ09GUb9mT7zfcZdihq2qiKcR/w+loboHwc5B2LdlRSicbiBwcmKm4zH9cERvXzCA7fKEYLlsw5a3keJmUc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:3551:b0:3df:1453:172d with SMTP id i17-20020a05600c355100b003df1453172dmr314889wmq.128.1675872818866; Wed, 08 Feb 2023 08:13:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <49312101.15152.0@wordpress.com> In-Reply-To: <49312101.15152.0@wordpress.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2023 08:13:26 -0800 Message-ID: To: libreqos , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000eafa605f4328c49" Subject: [LibreQoS] Fwd: [New post] How Good is FWA Wireless? X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2023 16:13:40 -0000 --0000000000000eafa605f4328c49 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I do find it odd that the carriers deprioritized home users (and of course, insane, that they have such lousy queue management still) ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: POTs and PANs Date: Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 4:35 AM Subject: [New post] How Good is FWA Wireless? To: [image: Site logo image] Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting posted: "T-Mobile got some bad news recently when the the National Advertising Division (NAD) of BBB National Programs informed T-Mobile that it could not use the words =E2=80=9Cfast=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Creliable=E2=80=9D when advertising for = its FWA fixed wireless product that it brands as T-M" POTs and PANs How Good is FWA Wireless? Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting Feb 8 T-Mobile got some bad news recently when the the National Advertising Division (NAD) of BBB National Programs informed T-Mobile that it could not use the words =E2=80=9Cfast=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Creliable=E2=80=9D when advertising for = its FWA fixed wireless product that it brands as T-Mobile Home Internet. This ruling came as a result of a complaint from Comcast that T-Mobile is overstating the capabilities of the FWA product in advertising. Most large carriers belong to the BBB National Programs as a lower cost way of mitigating advertising disputes than lawsuits. ISPS agree to go along with the rulings issued by the group as a condition of joining. However, in this case, T-Mobile is appealing the decision. The news wasn=E2=80=99t all = bad for T-Mobile since it was ruled that T-Mobile could continue to advertise that the price of FWA is =E2=80=98locked-in=E2=80=9D since the company hasn=E2= =80=99t raised its rates. Anybody who has looked closely at the performance of FWA wireless from T-Mobile or Verizon would agree with this ruling. The main reason for the ruling is that the performance of FWA can vary widely. It=E2=80=99s a broad= band product that connects to customers from a cell site, and the distance between a customer and the cell site makes a big difference in the speed being delivered. I talked to one customer located near to a T-Mobile tower who was consistently getting over 200 Mbps download and was really pleased with the product. But in this same community, customers only a mile or so away from that same cell tower were getting speeds closer to 50-100 Mbps and were not as happy with the product. A mile further away and speeds were not good at all, and I talked to a farmer who sent the receiver back. In a rural area, a mile isn't very far, and unless there are a lot of towers, most folks are not getting the advertised fast speeds. The one consistent feedback I=E2=80=99ve gotten in talking to FWA customers= is that speeds vary. This is true for all cellular broadband, and cell phone customers are used to seeing a different number of bars of broadband speed over time from the same location such as home or the office. Cellular data speeds vary for a wide variety of reasons like temperature and weather. But the biggest reason for the variability is the overall volume of data being demanded from a given cell site at a given moment. Like most broadband products, cellular broadband is a shared data product where the broadband is divvied up among the users at any given time. But unlike landline broadband networks, a cellular company cannot control the number of users at a cell site. Since cell phones are mobile, there is no telling how many people might be demanding a cellular data connection at any given time. FWA has one more limitation in that the cellular carriers have elected to give first priority to cell phones over FWA customers. This means that when a cell site gets busy, the carrier will choke the delivered data speeds to FWA customers in order to deliver the most speed possible to cellular customers. This makes sense since each big T-Mobile and Verizon have roughly 100 million cellular customers compared to a few million FWA customers. They do not want to make cellular customers unhappy with broadband speeds, and so they throttle FWA when a cell site gets busy. T-Mobile doesn=E2=80=99t hide this, and the throttling is discussed in the = fine print when the product is advertised. But that throttling is part of the reason that T-Mobile can=E2=80=99t describe it=E2=80=99s product as reliabl= e =E2=80=93 because at busy times it isn=E2=80=99t. The big selling point for FWA is the low price and I=E2=80=99m sure the pri= ce is what attracted urban customers. The speeds are going to be liked in rural areas where there are no alternatives, but there is definitely a severe distance limitation - in a rural area a 50 Mbps connection might be a big leap up in performance. But the FWA product is a lot slower than cable company broadband. Households who are heavy broadband users might not like the slower speeds and the variability. This ruling is telling T-Mobile that it can=E2=80=99t advertise in a way that makes FWA sound like an equivalent alternative to cable or fiber broadband, because it isn=E2=80=99t. It=E2=80= =99s going to be interesting to see how T-Mobile adjusts it=E2=80=99s advertising after this= ruling. Comment ------------------------------ Unsubscribe to no longer receive posts from POTs and PANs. Change your email settings at manage subscriptions. Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2023/02/08/how-good-is-fwa-wireless/ Powered by WordPress.com [image: Download on the App Store] [image: Get it on Google Play] --=20 This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666656= 07352320-FXtz Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC --0000000000000eafa605f4328c49 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I do find it odd that the carriers deprioritized home user= s (and of course, insane, that they have such lousy queue management still)=

--= -------- Forwarded message ---------
From: POTs and PANs <donotreply@wordpress.com>Date: Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 4:35 AM
Subject: [New post] How Good is FWA = Wireless?
To: <dave.taht@gmai= l.com>


3D"Site Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting posted: "T-Mobile got some= bad news recently when the the National Advertising Division (NAD) of BBB = National Programs informed T-Mobile that it could not use the words =E2=80= =9Cfast=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Creliable=E2=80=9D when advertising for its FW= A fixed wireless product that it brands as T-M" =09 =09 POTs and PANs

How Good is FWA=C2=A0Wire= less?

Doug Daw= son, CCG Consulting

Feb 8

3D""T-Mobile got some bad news recently when the the Nation= al Advertising Division (NAD) of BBB National Programs informed T-Mobile th= at it could not use the words =E2=80=9Cfast=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Creliable= =E2=80=9D when advertising for its FWA fixed wireless product that it brand= s as T-Mobile Home Internet. This ruling came as a result of a complaint fr= om Comcast that T-Mobile is overstating the capabilities of the FWA product= in advertising.

Most large carriers belong to the BBB = National Programs as a lower cost way of mitigating advertising disputes th= an lawsuits. ISPS agree to go along with the rulings issued by the group as= a condition of joining. However, in this case, T-Mobile is appealing the d= ecision. The news wasn=E2=80=99t all bad for T-Mobile since it was ruled th= at T-Mobile could continue to advertise that the price of FWA is =E2=80=98l= ocked-in=E2=80=9D since the company hasn=E2=80=99t raised its rates.

Anybody who has looked closely at the = performance of FWA wireless from T-Mobile or Verizon would agree with this = ruling. The main reason for the ruling is that the performance of FWA can v= ary widely. It=E2=80=99s a broadband product that connects to customers fro= m a cell site, and the distance between a customer and the cell site makes = a big difference in the speed being delivered. I talked to one customer loc= ated near to a T-Mobile tower who was consistently getting over 200 Mbps do= wnload and was really pleased with the product. But in this same community,= customers only a mile or so away from that same cell tower were getting sp= eeds closer to 50-100 Mbps and were not as happy with the product. A mile f= urther away and speeds were not good at all, and I talked to a farmer who s= ent the receiver back. In a rural area, a mile isn't very far, and unle= ss there are a lot of towers, most folks are not getting the advertised fas= t speeds.

The one consistent feedback I=E2=80=99= ve gotten in talking to FWA customers is that speeds vary. This is true for= all cellular broadband, and cell phone customers are used to seeing a diff= erent number of bars of broadband speed over time from the same location su= ch as home or the office. Cellular data speeds vary for a wide variety of r= easons like temperature and weather.

But the biggest reason for the variabi= lity is the overall volume of data being demanded from a given cell site at= a given moment. Like most broadband products, cellular broadband is a shar= ed data product where the broadband is divvied up among the users at any gi= ven time. But unlike landline broadband networks, a cellular company cannot= control the number of users at a cell site. Since cell phones are mobile, = there is no telling how many people might be demanding a cellular data conn= ection at any given time.

FWA has one more limitation in that th= e cellular carriers have elected to give first priority to cell phones over= FWA customers. This means that when a cell site gets busy, the carrier wil= l choke the delivered data speeds to FWA customers in order to deliver the = most speed possible to cellular customers. This makes sense since each big = T-Mobile and Verizon have roughly 100 million cellular customers compared t= o a few million FWA customers. They do not want to make cellular customers = unhappy with broadband speeds, and so they throttle FWA when a cell site ge= ts busy.

T-Mobile doesn=E2=80=99t hide this, an= d the throttling is discussed in the fine print when the product is adverti= sed. But that throttling is part of the reason that T-Mobile can=E2=80=99t = describe it=E2=80=99s product as reliable =E2=80=93 because at busy times i= t isn=E2=80=99t.

The big selling point for FWA is the l= ow price and I=E2=80=99m sure the price is what attracted urban customers. = The speeds are going to be liked in rural areas where there are no alternat= ives, but there is definitely a severe distance limitation - in a rural are= a a 50 Mbps connection might be a big leap up in performance. But the FWA p= roduct is a lot slower than cable company broadband. Households who are hea= vy broadband users might not like the slower speeds and the variability. Th= is ruling is telling T-Mobile that it can=E2=80=99t advertise in a way that= makes FWA sound like an equivalent alternative to cable or fiber broadband= , because it isn=E2=80=99t. It=E2=80=99s going to be interesting to see how= T-Mobile adjusts it=E2=80=99s advertising after this ruling.
=09
=
=09 =09 Comment

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This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
= Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
--0000000000000eafa605f4328c49--