From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg1-x535.google.com (mail-pg1-x535.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::535]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48DF03B29E for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2023 21:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x535.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-55b83ae9be2so151139a12.2 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2023 18:51:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1689817886; x=1690422686; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=MQDOsFtONSFUIm0ApzKuQj3MNmuTOQhauHECF9ka6Yg=; b=kzmSK8DNTFqBYnxyb6bphVRkUSz/Hyl5U+XmWDWqcl0NZtnYfxR9/nlWobdBgiQJJR HEvmjqY7Rj98bPXgMYy8mSe/KSoKSjPhOeZM73mMzWwweG8Jhn9wExNh46A1MN7JnXP7 ikFOJKO/2Ds0BVseyXzCvVlWvALqJfDF8dzdsDypIUYy2impuUr+FxvQJqkGk5DpBWF8 I+VnN9KYP6qGKZuEXWnJ3wPwipxMjU+vOUcwSzZTjYYrg+/sVEgmOZVBPkPodB0ma+03 S78hfVFsGZcXTQT4ukQXryEIpfJ9vP3WyZoCV2c/O2EoWAj1qpQh2Qp1F42hMk4jdkyT vzgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1689817886; x=1690422686; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MQDOsFtONSFUIm0ApzKuQj3MNmuTOQhauHECF9ka6Yg=; b=aeIDfQ7TU9zr/EabUZiVJrEP8GmvXNC3SGV0x0Xgy2asHGydeMxVdqwz35PAjF0ib7 36WjxDuqKruTPcL9Er0XnT1iMfAW8KvTB9BOS8HCX/ckNJCtXHs+60XHCnI22fBmHMuI nt7gTVNZdeQnYodjTzWD++rL1Y6PXXeKgZgeVYFkUhPdPZoItQgNkU83scGGrwk7t+Ez uXHasoGahZqeWOeSPuzgfVBUaB1TKqR/ttVjL5KWvvgQMJUQK6Azf4jhlccoC54/GK4C gaCepOoQCEQyplpDWSocEic3CmLkE40snIUr20xO1pJB+cjOA2Yuicpe680VC7WPcGKa EmVw== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLY03gcSOdViG1wbGZCfY+aSlBZzvtPQAsynII6zMqZ1N9GPlTgJ scFrkPzTuMmef2MDaQKNTk7pkJ8nYjViX0uQTS5D8lojHCs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlFlZmh4kWOM/YLozVTHa/UDKgHcZP/s2Y2VI3Q5T40b5rEUNU31mV4BJpas5YaesgjBPeOTPPbjZEBDDpmDuaI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:4b8d:b0:262:fb5d:147b with SMTP id lr13-20020a17090b4b8d00b00262fb5d147bmr817934pjb.19.1689817885651; Wed, 19 Jul 2023 18:51:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2023 19:51:13 -0600 Message-ID: To: libreqos Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [LibreQoS] Fwd: [Make-wifi-fast] An "Accurate" Platform for Investigating TCP Performance in Wi-Fi Networks X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 01:51:27 -0000 ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Bob McMahon Date: Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 6:48=E2=80=AFPM Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] An "Accurate" Platform for Investigating TCP Performance in Wi-Fi Networks To: Dave Taht Cc: Make-Wifi-fast , , , , , Kien NGUYEN , , I think making WiFi tech accessible to students is a very good thing. That students make mistakes is also a good thing. I understand the frustration though. I've recently rolled out a raspberry pi 4 crib sheet on how to build an L4S capable device. It's a fun project and comes in at around $100 U.S. Throw in some switches, USB WiFi cards, ethernet for control, a GPS hat for pulse per second, use iperf 2 and pyflows. All for less than $500. The expensive part is placing the RF under control but that's doable too - though likely in the few thousands of dollars and maybe just a bit more. The math is already done thanks to those studying molecular evolution. Bob On Wed, Jul 19, 2023 at 5:30=E2=80=AFPM Dave Taht via Make-wifi-fast wrote: > > It is hard to contain my disappointment that a modern work on wifi, > that even mentions bufferbloat, could have missed our work on fixing > wifi (such as "ending the anomaly", now the default APIs in the linux > kernel), and make claims for the emulator that are so completely > wrong, and further claim that the behaviors matched a real world AP. > > re: https://mdpi-res.com/d_attachment/futureinternet/futureinternet-15-00= 246/article_deploy/futureinternet-15-00246.pdf?version=3D1689771540 > > Can I suggest strongly to the authors that they try to understand rate > vs range vs buffering, the intersection of the half duplex txop > infrastructure with multiple stations, the side effects of > aggregation, and other scheduling difficulties mininet does not come > even close to handling? > > 20 packet buffers?? A more typical number is much greater. > Test through walls or at distance? > > Here are 4 resources that might help deepen your understanding. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DRb-UnHDw02o&t=3D1532s (10 minutes here, > but do the whole thing) > https://bufferbloat-and-beyond.net/ > https://www.cs.kau.se/tohojo/airtime-fairness/ > https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/minstrel/ > > -- > Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:70587939102= 27111937/ > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Make-wifi-fast mailing list > Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and destroy any printed copy of it. --=20 Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227= 111937/ Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos