* Re: [LibreQoS] Intro
2022-10-27 16:16 ` Dave Taht
@ 2022-10-27 16:19 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-27 18:18 ` Zach Underwood
1 sibling, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Dave Taht @ 2022-10-27 16:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Zach Underwood; +Cc: LibreQoS
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 9:16 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 8:52 AM Zach Underwood via LibreQoS
> <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> > Dave recommended that I introduce myself to the list.
>
> Very nice to have you join us. There's been a lot of good traffic this
> month in the archives. Feel free to weigh in on any subject!!!
>
> > I am a wifi engineer at Whitesky which is owned by Realpage(yeah I know about the lawsuit, that is not my group). We provide wifi and wired internet services at multiple family housing units. We have 600 sites in the USA and service 135k units. With about 60% being student housing and avg install 1200 APs a week. We range from a 20 unit complex to 5000 unit housing like Harvard graduate housing. Our standard deployment is an example of a 200 unit complex. We will order and install a 10gb wave or EPL from say level3, atnt, uniti or another fiber company between the site and one of our 13 datacenters. In the datacenter we have IX connections, private peering and transit connections. The fiber will connected to a mikrotik crs317_1g_16s_rm to be used as a wan switch. Next we have a pair of ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs.
>
> What version of routerOS? I'm always at pains to say fq_codel was
> designed to run at line rate (cheaply), NOT shaped... and that the fq
> helps smooth out microbursts, and the aqm is way better than a drop
> tail queue, and am very enthused about the routeros 7.2 and later
> availability of it, but still struggle to convince people to
> "just turn it on" as we did in openwrt, linux, ios, etc so long ago.
>
> > Half of the site vlans are on one router and the other half on the other router. All vlans on each router we NAT(for v4) to a single public ip(so two public ip per site). We also dual stack for v6 and offer dhcpv6-pd on the wired network. After the routers they connect to the nexus 3k core switch and then 10gb links to 3750x that power APs in unit and service wired drops. We do not rate limit or do any type of shaping.
>
> This is one of those things that then, gets done naturally, at the
> bottleneck point, which is most likely
> the wifi, but might, in a complex campus, be at the up or downlinks. I
> was deeply impressed by the ruckus spec
> (https://www.digitalairwireless.com/articles/blog/ruckus-networks-delivers-their-first-802-11ax-product-and-it-is-a-beast)-
> which transliterated reads almost like a direct implementation of the
> stuff we described to them circa 2019? (2020?), in what I thought
> (then) was a disastrous meeting with their (now ex) CEO. (I refer to
> this story here: )
Oops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vExojh82p-k
I should really lay down of that ruckus meeting, it was, in
retrospect, funny as heck. He really did basically stand up and beat
his chest and say "Our buffers are the biggest in the industry!!",
where everyone else looked at him in horror. Who was going to tell the
emperor he had no clothes?
>
> I'm dying to know what they actually implemented, notably if ECN is
> present or not. a packet capture of a ping -f -Q 1 -s 1440 from client
> to some other point ought (on a packet capture of the other point)
> show the CE bits set if they actually directly implemented the stuff
> from https://www.cs.kau.se/tohojo/airtime-fairness/ e.g. in wireshark:
>
> ipv6.tclass.ecn == 3
>
> or
>
> ip.dsfield.ecn == 3
>
> There's been a lot of research as to how much dscp or ecn "washing"
> actually existed across the internet. Most of it seemed to be coming
> from older, bigger ISPs.
>
> testing udp or tcp diffserv and ecn compliance e2e is also possible
> with the flent tool. Are the ecn bits preserved? (-Q 1 or -Q 2)
>
> I use irtt as a means to sweep the diffserv bits.
>
> >At all of our site we are doing a min of 1 ap in each unit. Some of our sites have paid extra and will get two ruckus r650 in say a 2 bedroom 2 story townhouse.
>
> It is in general, my hope, more folk in dense deployments are using
> narrower channels.
>
> >
> > --
> > Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> > My website
> > advance-networking.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > LibreQoS mailing list
> > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
>
>
>
> --
> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
--
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: [LibreQoS] Intro
2022-10-27 16:16 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-27 16:19 ` Dave Taht
@ 2022-10-27 18:18 ` Zach Underwood
1 sibling, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Zach Underwood @ 2022-10-27 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Dave Taht; +Cc: LibreQoS
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We have standardized on 6.48.6 for the mikrotik routers. I will see if I
can get that ping test from a wifi client and will report back to you if I
can.
2.4 ghz
20 mhz
reduce power by -3dB
auto channel(only allow 1,6,11)
5ghz
40mhz
auto cell size
auto channel and allow dfs
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 12:16 PM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 8:52 AM Zach Underwood via LibreQoS
> <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> > Dave recommended that I introduce myself to the list.
>
> Very nice to have you join us. There's been a lot of good traffic this
> month in the archives. Feel free to weigh in on any subject!!!
>
> > I am a wifi engineer at Whitesky which is owned by Realpage(yeah I know
> about the lawsuit, that is not my group). We provide wifi and wired
> internet services at multiple family housing units. We have 600 sites in
> the USA and service 135k units. With about 60% being student housing and
> avg install 1200 APs a week. We range from a 20 unit complex to 5000 unit
> housing like Harvard graduate housing. Our standard deployment is an
> example of a 200 unit complex. We will order and install a 10gb wave or EPL
> from say level3, atnt, uniti or another fiber company between the site and
> one of our 13 datacenters. In the datacenter we have IX connections,
> private peering and transit connections. The fiber will connected to a
> mikrotik crs317_1g_16s_rm to be used as a wan switch. Next we have a pair
> of ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs.
>
> What version of routerOS? I'm always at pains to say fq_codel was
> designed to run at line rate (cheaply), NOT shaped... and that the fq
> helps smooth out microbursts, and the aqm is way better than a drop
> tail queue, and am very enthused about the routeros 7.2 and later
> availability of it, but still struggle to convince people to
> "just turn it on" as we did in openwrt, linux, ios, etc so long ago.
>
> > Half of the site vlans are on one router and the other half on the other
> router. All vlans on each router we NAT(for v4) to a single public ip(so
> two public ip per site). We also dual stack for v6 and offer dhcpv6-pd on
> the wired network. After the routers they connect to the nexus 3k core
> switch and then 10gb links to 3750x that power APs in unit and service
> wired drops. We do not rate limit or do any type of shaping.
>
> This is one of those things that then, gets done naturally, at the
> bottleneck point, which is most likely
> the wifi, but might, in a complex campus, be at the up or downlinks. I
> was deeply impressed by the ruckus spec
> (
> https://www.digitalairwireless.com/articles/blog/ruckus-networks-delivers-their-first-802-11ax-product-and-it-is-a-beast)-
> which transliterated reads almost like a direct implementation of the
> stuff we described to them circa 2019? (2020?), in what I thought
> (then) was a disastrous meeting with their (now ex) CEO. (I refer to
> this story here: )
>
> I'm dying to know what they actually implemented, notably if ECN is
> present or not. a packet capture of a ping -f -Q 1 -s 1440 from client
> to some other point ought (on a packet capture of the other point)
> show the CE bits set if they actually directly implemented the stuff
> from https://www.cs.kau.se/tohojo/airtime-fairness/ e.g. in wireshark:
>
> ipv6.tclass.ecn == 3
>
> or
>
> ip.dsfield.ecn == 3
>
> There's been a lot of research as to how much dscp or ecn "washing"
> actually existed across the internet. Most of it seemed to be coming
> from older, bigger ISPs.
>
> testing udp or tcp diffserv and ecn compliance e2e is also possible
> with the flent tool. Are the ecn bits preserved? (-Q 1 or -Q 2)
>
> I use irtt as a means to sweep the diffserv bits.
>
> >At all of our site we are doing a min of 1 ap in each unit. Some of our
> sites have paid extra and will get two ruckus r650 in say a 2 bedroom 2
> story townhouse.
>
> It is in general, my hope, more folk in dense deployments are using
> narrower channels.
>
> >
> > --
> > Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> > My website
> > advance-networking.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > LibreQoS mailing list
> > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
>
>
>
> --
> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>
--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
advance-networking.com
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread