From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ej1-x634.google.com (mail-ej1-x634.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::634]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D11683B29E for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2022 14:18:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ej1-x634.google.com with SMTP id sc25so6989227ejc.12 for ; Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:18:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=6n499/opzxWO5U5zTC/WMnauf6IuW48jRGmkC+fQFbs=; b=ZxPCLKWPMljhjM3qRbwO5cjk8oPgJmlotZSlgWlcuKuvcWE5qzMn7HNk1yXoLPJ6TF MXoMrAJ3caNlm61oBTcxCuoD5fNXKMTLSzBhrO1UekHl+qMBlx06DYmtrP65bjS3QQ8i YvpdtN/m7PAtD4tKfyUMSVB34cE0Ff059LeSs2ZL/g6weuYTRs5yhoJGk6AeuvJKx4Md 5+QTQqsHZnjVspVSwLdbo/7c0fYyfbG2qi98loUylfiwHI1WhEwBMLt22i1iofd6GtG5 HJ9lGh/XMHQdMfjLli1f37AUoo6JY2mrFnG/Nam4YOwbaXnVxLvzvonm1T28pK3+frGe 2bMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=6n499/opzxWO5U5zTC/WMnauf6IuW48jRGmkC+fQFbs=; b=JVWIzsFHqbWjoh5O1Elpbx57p/qO9Y3aAbQPzzyIvd5A199hPBDKayquIC09MKJqZc xrIAsxjHRQwCkjJwHtuDN+eV+FEbQIwB2TLK45aZaMUC62hv21VLkF9oiAsj9KyMaVZs UQgC9j1FK4mimzUyO8X++PllCpbHar+uIq+z4TXLMAK+CcAvLZZk1dUW0aT313IC1ffx vXQh81qaCXSeIPALCqsJe3A1u13Tr5QVgf3vKzgYSqw73OxcLpz/ry6NxW2LKR7c2bMq Vh5ShmUKSxVa0Fj8W2Fa5dm1i7ptP9BiqGsJ/5QZz5/NUgAL9tudj1B2oAbZEbRtXq31 ReYw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf3FWhTKT0vrzGYfteZNUa+4zZcXpu0yk1s2pSXdWKpamGfGY6JJ sB5jR0cpXF/Uq404+vrF40DE3IdUH2hPsJfrWKya92PoAJg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM6IM9AsL+dvPWTThyz+m2ru3AZTB3lCWSY73VVi+dWBhKy1E4e9kZS2/xiRSKgLtA+awVpyu5Jk3JozUYJQal0= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:9750:b0:798:9ccc:845d with SMTP id o16-20020a170906975000b007989ccc845dmr34389574ejy.760.1666894722218; Thu, 27 Oct 2022 11:18:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Zach Underwood Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 14:18:47 -0400 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cbc05505ec082b9e" Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] Intro X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2022 18:18:44 -0000 --000000000000cbc05505ec082b9e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We have standardized on 6.48.6 for the mikrotik routers. I will see if I can get that ping test from a wifi client and will report back to you if I can. 2.4 ghz 20 mhz reduce power by -3dB auto channel(only allow 1,6,11) 5ghz 40mhz auto cell size auto channel and allow dfs On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 12:16 PM Dave Taht wrote: > On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 8:52 AM Zach Underwood via LibreQoS > wrote: > > > > Dave recommended that I introduce myself to the list. > > Very nice to have you join us. There's been a lot of good traffic this > month in the archives. Feel free to weigh in on any subject!!! > > > I am a wifi engineer at Whitesky which is owned by Realpage(yeah I kno= w > about the lawsuit, that is not my group). We provide wifi and wired > internet services at multiple family housing units. We have 600 sites in > the USA and service 135k units. With about 60% being student housing and > avg install 1200 APs a week. We range from a 20 unit complex to 5000 uni= t > housing like Harvard graduate housing. Our standard deployment is an > example of a 200 unit complex. We will order and install a 10gb wave or E= PL > from say level3, atnt, uniti or another fiber company between the site an= d > one of our 13 datacenters. In the datacenter we have IX connections, > private peering and transit connections. The fiber will connected to a > mikrotik crs317_1g_16s_rm to be used as a wan switch. Next we have a pair > of ccr2004_1g_12s_2xs. > > What version of routerOS? I'm always at pains to say fq_codel was > designed to run at line rate (cheaply), NOT shaped... and that the fq > helps smooth out microbursts, and the aqm is way better than a drop > tail queue, and am very enthused about the routeros 7.2 and later > availability of it, but still struggle to convince people to > "just turn it on" as we did in openwrt, linux, ios, etc so long ago. > > > Half of the site vlans are on one router and the other half on the othe= r > router. All vlans on each router we NAT(for v4) to a single public ip(so > two public ip per site). We also dual stack for v6 and offer dhcpv6-pd on > the wired network. After the routers they connect to the nexus 3k core > switch and then 10gb links to 3750x that power APs in unit and service > wired drops. We do not rate limit or do any type of shaping. > > This is one of those things that then, gets done naturally, at the > bottleneck point, which is most likely > the wifi, but might, in a complex campus, be at the up or downlinks. I > was deeply impressed by the ruckus spec > ( > https://www.digitalairwireless.com/articles/blog/ruckus-networks-delivers= -their-first-802-11ax-product-and-it-is-a-beast)- > which transliterated reads almost like a direct implementation of the > stuff we described to them circa 2019? (2020?), in what I thought > (then) was a disastrous meeting with their (now ex) CEO. (I refer to > this story here: ) > > I'm dying to know what they actually implemented, notably if ECN is > present or not. a packet capture of a ping -f -Q 1 -s 1440 from client > to some other point ought (on a packet capture of the other point) > show the CE bits set if they actually directly implemented the stuff > from https://www.cs.kau.se/tohojo/airtime-fairness/ e.g. in wireshark: > > ipv6.tclass.ecn =3D=3D 3 > > or > > ip.dsfield.ecn =3D=3D 3 > > There's been a lot of research as to how much dscp or ecn "washing" > actually existed across the internet. Most of it seemed to be coming > from older, bigger ISPs. > > testing udp or tcp diffserv and ecn compliance e2e is also possible > with the flent tool. Are the ecn bits preserved? (-Q 1 or -Q 2) > > I use irtt as a means to sweep the diffserv bits. > > >At all of our site we are doing a min of 1 ap in each unit. Some of our > sites have paid extra and will get two ruckus r650 in say a 2 bedroom 2 > story townhouse. > > It is in general, my hope, more folk in dense deployments are using > narrower channels. > > > > > -- > > Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) > > My website > > advance-networking.com > > _______________________________________________ > > LibreQoS mailing list > > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > > > > -- > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: > > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-698136666= 5607352320-FXtz > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > --=20 Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) My website advance-networking.com --000000000000cbc05505ec082b9e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We have standardized on=C2=A06.48.6 for the mikrotik route= rs. I will see if I can get that ping test from a wifi client and will repo= rt=C2=A0back to you if I can.

2.4 ghz=C2=A0
20= mhz
reduce power by -3dB
auto channel(only allow 1,6,1= 1)

5ghz
40mhz
auto cell size
auto channel and allow dfs

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 12:16 PM D= ave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com= > wrote:
On T= hu, Oct 27, 2022 at 8:52 AM Zach Underwood via LibreQoS
<lib= reqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> Dave recommended that I introduce myself to the list.

Very nice to have you join us. There's been a lot of good traffic this<= br> month in the archives. Feel free to weigh in on any subject!!!

>=C2=A0 I am a wifi engineer at Whitesky which is owned by Realpage(yeah= I know about the lawsuit, that is not my group). We provide wifi and wired= internet services at multiple family housing units. We have 600 sites in t= he USA and service 135k units. With about 60% being student housing and avg= install 1200 APs a week. We range from a 20 unit complex to=C2=A0 5000 uni= t housing like Harvard graduate housing. Our standard deployment is an exam= ple of a 200 unit complex. We will order and install a 10gb wave or EPL fro= m say level3, atnt, uniti or another fiber company between the site and one= of our 13 datacenters. In the datacenter=C2=A0 we have IX connections, pri= vate peering and transit connections. The fiber will connected to a mikroti= k crs317_1g_16s_rm to be used as a wan switch. Next we have a pair of ccr20= 04_1g_12s_2xs.

What version of routerOS? I'm always at pains to say fq_codel was
designed to run at line rate (cheaply), NOT shaped... and that the fq
helps smooth out microbursts, and the aqm is way better than a drop
tail queue, and am very enthused about the routeros 7.2 and later
availability of it, but still struggle to convince people to
"just turn it on" as we did in openwrt, linux, ios, etc so long a= go.

> Half of the site vlans are on one router and the other half on the oth= er router. All vlans on each router we NAT(for v4) to a single public ip(so= two public ip per site). We also dual stack for v6 and offer dhcpv6-pd on = the wired network. After the routers they connect to the nexus 3k core swit= ch and then 10gb links to 3750x that power APs in unit and service wired dr= ops. We do not rate limit or do any type of shaping.

This is one of those things that then, gets done naturally, at the
bottleneck point, which is most likely
the wifi, but might, in a complex campus, be at the up or downlinks. I
was deeply impressed by the ruckus spec
(https://www.digitalairwireless.com/articles/blog/ruc= kus-networks-delivers-their-first-802-11ax-product-and-it-is-a-beast)-<= br> which transliterated reads almost like a direct implementation of the
stuff we described to them circa 2019? (2020?), in what I thought
(then) was a=C2=A0 disastrous meeting with their (now ex) CEO. (I refer to<= br> this story here: )

I'm dying to know what they actually implemented, notably if ECN is
present or not. a packet capture of a ping -f -Q 1 -s 1440 from client
to some other point ought (on a packet capture of the other point)
show the CE bits set if they actually directly implemented the stuff
from https://www.cs.kau.se/tohojo/airtime-fairness/ e.g. in wireshark:

ipv6.tclass.ecn =3D=3D 3

or

ip.dsfield.ecn =3D=3D 3

There's been a lot of research as to how much dscp or ecn "washing= "
actually existed across the internet. Most of it seemed to be coming
from older, bigger ISPs.

testing udp or tcp diffserv and ecn compliance e2e is also possible
with the flent tool. Are the ecn bits preserved? (-Q 1 or -Q 2)

I use irtt as a means to sweep the diffserv bits.

>At all of our site we are doing a min of 1 ap in each unit. Some of our= sites have paid extra and will get two ruckus r650 in say a 2 bedroom 2 st= ory townhouse.

It is in general, my hope, more folk in dense deployments are using
narrower channels.

>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website
> advance-networking.com
> _______________________________________________
> LibreQoS mailing list
> Li= breQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos<= /a>



--
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.= linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXt= z
Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC


--
Zach Underwood (RHCE= ,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
--000000000000cbc05505ec082b9e--