From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-x112d.google.com (mail-yw1-x112d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1CB743B2A4 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2022 11:43:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yw1-x112d.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-39ce6773248so48925787b3.12 for ; Mon, 21 Nov 2022 08:43:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=MNaZ5ynyACyzgaJpIAxaTHpQPTgZfYjgxe6L68yJS/I=; b=lQT2whLbnX8jyHH+LDaMXAZWgudBqWfkMLZvPxRS1D1BMvIuJSVymPf55K4c3gfJn3 7A/hSprt4zXZ92qQbfF4LDBIflfUfvAUGf4axQEf0BnGmcN/4aYqUifr6J6K8tcUjQ1G vbk47uX26kZtZmZroaScdySQvlNvf0E16GqdXIhhi9HixGC7BBoydtzqfQhWEsAOrozK 2CA0KSBGriPUHMgoMx4KD3Me1DRiA7+UtJ3LIUo5wNoNPOOp28vP5f2chEcbcOBKUVgZ 2O2XUd/PPmTsXPgkhB6ehpopXwAPVeEwfwcBfhagWo7IAm1yjkRycRxH7Z6LCxrjOf+V 6Thw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=MNaZ5ynyACyzgaJpIAxaTHpQPTgZfYjgxe6L68yJS/I=; b=xSo2KtSc6ALOEKViWhFXIiBUXV8jEw3xrgmeAz3oh+s0DWMqEzwdEjDG38u4q8G9f3 gqyiqljBnv5j5d5437+luNyXutaafjTvcfAuHjBY87CMqFMRV1oIxlNK00e8YLZOX2P/ X5aO/75QmTdSY8vkJBkAAtC+ilEf6ZIq05pBrD3+1Qe1Luy7HfCmqSMv5mmaOTCQicrl 2i8q7SGa661kSKcD1OGug53z7KBXn2jsZqWTi00Mu7yqgPtkgcnskW044LKwxKxPaEkG LRo6muETu9njynhysc4WlLgOIKUCttZ/+osUODVomFd5KGzxhvZlppvY4B0xCSK9PSPT dVKw== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5plTu8mIa2cMfsVkY4TfXu7H/v4AoJvorgJoQ5FTcdXr3LBElqFC F8oSVrAn2fjCCg9PmDXOXGFZ7blQ5slECYIxFETy8fuaEsI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf5yOZD9JXVhqHND+b6mJzbYb+7bgC0ZmBjXhWB/8NSDT6bymE6g4KQSCSaa3K68mB0PPyVEeDTRsNC1dpugL4E= X-Received: by 2002:a81:4dc6:0:b0:388:9d69:9183 with SMTP id a189-20020a814dc6000000b003889d699183mr18149378ywb.172.1669049030375; Mon, 21 Nov 2022 08:43:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6376757B.5060906@jmaimon.com> <3bbf43bb-e137-c95c-cff6-44f0e8e05e0d@tinka.africa> <63777027.3000302@jmaimon.com> <7e66e85a-fc26-a980-7f0d-599469633417@tinka.africa> In-Reply-To: From: dan Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 09:43:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: libreqos Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000917cf605edfdc2e9" Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] 500/household X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 16:43:51 -0000 --000000000000917cf605edfdc2e9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Having done some engineering working areas with average incomes in the $15/month range and all services being provided by NGOs and gov aid... most people I talk to really have no idea how internet access works in less privileged parts of the world. I think much of the western world has lost sight of what the internet means because it's taken for granted. Now it's how our netflix comes in or how our kids get their fortnite etc. Covid definitely woke many up because people had to do work from home, but it's still just not the big of a priority in peoples minds. I mean, americans will suffer through terrible service on a $50 plan and have to work from home on that while having a $300 per adult cigarette bill. Go to Nepal, internet bill comes before many things, they'll even skip a meal to keep their internet service working. Go to rural Nepal or Cambodia and it's the only thing that links them to the rest of the world, and primarily via messaging apps. Maybe 5Mbps of unreliable connectivity for everyone to share. On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 11:58 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Eric Kuhnke > Date: Sun, Nov 20, 2022, 2:58 PM > Subject: Re: Alternative Re: ipv4/25s and above > To: Mark Tinka > Cc: > > > If I had a dollar for every person who has lived their entire life in a > high-income western country (US, Canada, western Europe, etc) and has zer= o > personal experience in developing-nation telecom/ISP operations and their > unique operational requirements, yet thinks they've qualified to offer an > opinion on it... > > People should go look at some of the WISPs in the Philippines for an > example of ISPs building last and middle mile infrastructure on extremely > limited budgets. Or really just about anywhere else where the residential > broadband market has households where the entire household monthly income > is the equivalent of $500 USD. > > > > On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 at 04:59, Mark Tinka wrote: > >> >> >> On 11/19/22 05:50, Abraham Y. Chen wrote: >> >> > Dear Owen: >> > >> > 1) "... Africa ... They don=E2=80=99t really have a lot of alternative= s. ...": >> > Actually, there is, simple and in plain sight. Please have a look at >> > the below IETF Draft: >> >> It's most amusing, to me, how Africa needs to be told how to be... >> >> Some folk just can't help themselves. >> >> Mark. >> > _______________________________________________ > LibreQoS mailing list > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > --000000000000917cf605edfdc2e9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Having done some engineering working areas with average in= comes in the $15/month range and all services being provided by NGOs and go= v aid... most people I talk to really have no idea how internet access work= s in less privileged parts of the world.

I think much of the western= world has lost sight of what the internet means because it's taken for= granted.=C2=A0 Now it's how our netflix comes in or how our kids get t= heir fortnite etc.=C2=A0 Covid definitely woke many up because people had t= o do work from home, but it's still just not the big of a priority in p= eoples minds.=C2=A0 I mean, americans will suffer through terrible service = on a $50 plan and have to work from home on that while having a $300 per ad= ult cigarette bill.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Go to Nepal, internet bill comes before ma= ny things, they'll even skip a meal to keep their internet service work= ing.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Go to rural Nepal or Cambodia and it= 9;s the only thing that links them to the rest of the world, and primarily = via messaging apps.=C2=A0 Maybe 5Mbps of unreliable connectivity for everyo= ne to share.

On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 11:58 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS &= lt;libreqos@lists.bufferb= loat.net> wrote:


---------- Forwarded message ---------
Fro= m: Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Nov 20, 2022, 2:58 P= M
Subject: Re: Alternative Re: ipv4/25s and above
To: Mark Tinka <= mark@tinka.africa>
Cc: <nanog@nanog.org>


If I had a dollar for every person who has lived their ent= ire life in a high-income western country (US, Canada, western Europe, etc)= and has zero personal experience in developing-nation telecom/ISP operatio= ns and their unique operational requirements, yet thinks they've qualif= ied to offer an opinion on it...=C2=A0

People= should go look at some of the WISPs in the Philippines for an example of I= SPs building last and middle mile infrastructure on extremely limited budge= ts. Or really just about anywhere else where the residential broadband mark= et has households where the entire household monthly income is the equivale= nt of $500 USD.



On Sat, 19 Nov 2022= at 04:59, Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> wrote:


On 11/19/22 05:50, Abraham Y. Chen wrote:

> Dear Owen:
>
> 1) "... Africa ... They don=E2=80=99t really have a lot of altern= atives. ...":
> Actually, there is, simple and in plain sight. Please have a look at <= br> > the below IETF Draft:

It's most amusing, to me, how Africa needs to be told how to be...

Some folk just can't help themselves.

Mark.
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