* [LibreQoS] 500/household [not found] ` <CAB69EHiw_eMMQ7DRCwQB_+1=4KUtjeh-d4ak9aqQKSN-h-Urwg@mail.gmail.com> @ 2022-11-21 6:57 ` Dave Taht 2022-11-21 16:43 ` dan 0 siblings, 1 reply; 3+ messages in thread From: Dave Taht @ 2022-11-21 6:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: libreqos [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1338 bytes --] ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> Date: Sun, Nov 20, 2022, 2:58 PM Subject: Re: Alternative Re: ipv4/25s and above To: Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> Cc: <nanog@nanog.org> If I had a dollar for every person who has lived their entire life in a high-income western country (US, Canada, western Europe, etc) and has zero personal experience in developing-nation telecom/ISP operations and their unique operational requirements, yet thinks they've qualified to offer an opinion on it... People should go look at some of the WISPs in the Philippines for an example of ISPs building last and middle mile infrastructure on extremely limited budgets. Or really just about anywhere else where the residential broadband market has households where the entire household monthly income is the equivalent of $500 USD. On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 at 04:59, Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> wrote: > > > On 11/19/22 05:50, Abraham Y. Chen wrote: > > > Dear Owen: > > > > 1) "... Africa ... They don’t really have a lot of alternatives. ...": > > Actually, there is, simple and in plain sight. Please have a look at > > the below IETF Draft: > > It's most amusing, to me, how Africa needs to be told how to be... > > Some folk just can't help themselves. > > Mark. > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2034 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
* Re: [LibreQoS] 500/household 2022-11-21 6:57 ` [LibreQoS] 500/household Dave Taht @ 2022-11-21 16:43 ` dan 2022-11-21 16:55 ` Dave Taht 0 siblings, 1 reply; 3+ messages in thread From: dan @ 2022-11-21 16:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Taht; +Cc: libreqos [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2721 bytes --] Having done some engineering working areas with average incomes in the $15/month range and all services being provided by NGOs and gov aid... most people I talk to really have no idea how internet access works in less privileged parts of the world. I think much of the western world has lost sight of what the internet means because it's taken for granted. Now it's how our netflix comes in or how our kids get their fortnite etc. Covid definitely woke many up because people had to do work from home, but it's still just not the big of a priority in peoples minds. I mean, americans will suffer through terrible service on a $50 plan and have to work from home on that while having a $300 per adult cigarette bill. Go to Nepal, internet bill comes before many things, they'll even skip a meal to keep their internet service working. Go to rural Nepal or Cambodia and it's the only thing that links them to the rest of the world, and primarily via messaging apps. Maybe 5Mbps of unreliable connectivity for everyone to share. On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 11:58 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> > Date: Sun, Nov 20, 2022, 2:58 PM > Subject: Re: Alternative Re: ipv4/25s and above > To: Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> > Cc: <nanog@nanog.org> > > > If I had a dollar for every person who has lived their entire life in a > high-income western country (US, Canada, western Europe, etc) and has zero > personal experience in developing-nation telecom/ISP operations and their > unique operational requirements, yet thinks they've qualified to offer an > opinion on it... > > People should go look at some of the WISPs in the Philippines for an > example of ISPs building last and middle mile infrastructure on extremely > limited budgets. Or really just about anywhere else where the residential > broadband market has households where the entire household monthly income > is the equivalent of $500 USD. > > > > On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 at 04:59, Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> wrote: > >> >> >> On 11/19/22 05:50, Abraham Y. Chen wrote: >> >> > Dear Owen: >> > >> > 1) "... Africa ... They don’t really have a lot of alternatives. ...": >> > Actually, there is, simple and in plain sight. Please have a look at >> > the below IETF Draft: >> >> It's most amusing, to me, how Africa needs to be told how to be... >> >> Some folk just can't help themselves. >> >> Mark. >> > _______________________________________________ > LibreQoS mailing list > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3881 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
* Re: [LibreQoS] 500/household 2022-11-21 16:43 ` dan @ 2022-11-21 16:55 ` Dave Taht 0 siblings, 0 replies; 3+ messages in thread From: Dave Taht @ 2022-11-21 16:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: dan; +Cc: libreqos, Mike Puchol, Nick Feamster I don't have much recent info on the state of Africa... mike and nick, cc'd, have active projects there. On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 8:43 AM dan <dandenson@gmail.com> wrote: > > Having done some engineering working areas with average incomes in the $15/month range and all services being provided by NGOs and gov aid... most people I talk to really have no idea how internet access works in less privileged parts of the world. My experience w/OLPC is now over a decade old. But basics like power interruptions 6 times a day or longer, copper theft, water supplies, are often lacking. My take on things since... is a phone with some internet access is a necessity, but a computer or laptop, not so much, so much business is just done on the phone, and I'm under the impression (?) whatsapp is really dominating down there as a marketplace and communications mechanism. I was a huge fan of UPSes, down in Nicaragua, as rebooting even a semi-complicated network takes minutes, and that notion was foreign even to the coffee shops and cafe's that made their living from internet access to tourists. On the other hand, when the network was down, it was almost always a nice day outside. > I think much of the western world has lost sight of what the internet means because it's taken for granted. +10 > Now it's how our netflix comes in or how our kids get their fortnite etc. Covid definitely woke many up because people had to do work from home, but it's still just not the big of a priority in peoples minds. I mean, americans will suffer through terrible service on a $50 plan and have to work from home on that while having a $300 per adult cigarette bill. Go to Nepal, internet bill comes before many things, they'll even skip a meal to keep their internet service working. Cigs are cheaper in places like this. /me hides > Go to rural Nepal or Cambodia and it's the only thing that links them to the rest of the world, and primarily via messaging apps. Maybe 5Mbps of unreliable connectivity for everyone to share. It is still remarkable to me how many have apple phones. > On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 11:58 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >> From: Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke@gmail.com> >> Date: Sun, Nov 20, 2022, 2:58 PM >> Subject: Re: Alternative Re: ipv4/25s and above >> To: Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> >> Cc: <nanog@nanog.org> >> >> >> If I had a dollar for every person who has lived their entire life in a high-income western country (US, Canada, western Europe, etc) and has zero personal experience in developing-nation telecom/ISP operations and their unique operational requirements, yet thinks they've qualified to offer an opinion on it... >> >> People should go look at some of the WISPs in the Philippines for an example of ISPs building last and middle mile infrastructure on extremely limited budgets. Or really just about anywhere else where the residential broadband market has households where the entire household monthly income is the equivalent of $500 USD. >> >> >> >> On Sat, 19 Nov 2022 at 04:59, Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 11/19/22 05:50, Abraham Y. Chen wrote: >>> >>> > Dear Owen: >>> > >>> > 1) "... Africa ... They don’t really have a lot of alternatives. ...": >>> > Actually, there is, simple and in plain sight. Please have a look at >>> > the below IETF Draft: >>> >>> It's most amusing, to me, how Africa needs to be told how to be... >>> >>> Some folk just can't help themselves. >>> >>> Mark. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> LibreQoS mailing list >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos -- This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
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