From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-x1135.google.com (mail-yw1-x1135.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89F3D3B29E for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 12:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yw1-x1135.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-35befab86a4so90679787b3.8 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 09:48:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=iyhdlUXw+gz6wSApkiVlwpidvnSmxGU50r/xpUDb4Hg=; b=aMbn6SAVVLg4KYK3ucgjjdykzVcmYK5jmIAbLvjqLdODmmLSrGyF3MEklDg0udJwb8 Wknk0mHsAfMBIPXNthVJ9FuunZwK3V2WzIXX1mmEJSWETmtVxFsJHQ84m8OouTrbt3m2 sTfOHdPExk+yD7PtfDrjRcXIkKdvEngoIc1kqoRMm5CpUC7Oti9rw5T+rIz41sxkaCIs 1Em28tAlaNKqIVylFp881bnaZVWq30jVTWTZk5hGsUXIYorzu790xBEBWQFWa+pBzd74 /kS4dl9HjKx5J95Lyzr6y1nvNQyAepLbtJO+btU38mg71GCoI9XV9+eGATU480VlzlL2 Lg+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=iyhdlUXw+gz6wSApkiVlwpidvnSmxGU50r/xpUDb4Hg=; b=e1S30e+KbAJ4+TFrusz8AX0ZhrA/gsQU6/I4G/l9Sawg0Q/BRCQgyveAqXxy4AAt1a qtaeb2fuPN5Qswaa96nz6wop5GbbGfL5iTZ/wiP2La6EUqPRvfjVTpxeBxIjKCYvgSK4 /uIj69XlfS5/15vdMtE/LiFPXzw7JzxPvhaRcjUgM6A6I6BWf3tZ2YZDjV/W978cGzrG WJ71QgRKgZQBqmpDjmaCpZuOjF7RTZzufNOAN/+Hj4D/T3fABSW6BW1ZP/zDSPRHo5QG 6EFVR0oh7GoK1YmDGUZ+qICV9p7a4Jz3m2YyzLLvT2i05gKh/BsRhfzaGBj8FwMTkLc3 jARA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1P/YtXvPSUB20EFFVzQVTOHvjm0Pg6nMsihSHenvMX315n7CyW O6l2nuQt8pNfob9lGWdeHE6pNdFmyUyoblc5YdPZKyhfrHk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM79L/USVng7bRaWvEh3VoTV4//11oWEVvgsz1v3HC+m34bLNiNo4z47JXjz/vWKBYTnacGkFTnW4o0BLFqGs1o= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:d9ca:0:b0:368:2d00:40c2 with SMTP id b193-20020a0dd9ca000000b003682d0040c2mr22092062ywe.195.1666630122763; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 09:48:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: dan Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 10:48:31 -0600 Message-ID: To: Herbert Wolverson Cc: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000070784e05ebca9005" Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] ookla speedtest results? X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 16:48:43 -0000 --00000000000070784e05ebca9005 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable we also have a bunch of 25/5. It would be nice to get some more detailed numbers from ookla tests. We also have a lot of Eero units out there, so watching for the eero speed test would also be great. On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 10:31 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQoS < libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packet capture for > x duration? > > That's a good idea (I think there's a service somewhere for finding > speedtest > servers?). We're discussing testing the ack-filter feature right now, and > something > similar would work well for that. (We have a bunch of 25/5 and similarly > asymmetric > connections, in theory it'll help...) > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 10:31 AM dan via LibreQoS < > libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packet capture for = x >> duration? >> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:27 AM Dave Taht wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:20 AM dan wrote: >>> > >>> > Dave, I think that 'bouncing' is more CPU time in the browser. I >>> don't think it's indicative over what's actually happening. >>> >>> A simultaneous packet capture and wireshark plot of the RTTs would >>> also be helpful. >>> >>> > >>> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:09 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < >>> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Robert Chac=C3=B3n via LibreQoS >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > I can run an Ookla test in the middle of the night with LibreQoS >>> off for a bit. >>> >> >>> >> Groovy. >>> >> >>> >> > From what I recall - without Libre we see download bloat of 300ms >>> or so. With Libre, it's gone. On waveform we see 0ms added bloat each >>> direction for most clients. >>> >> >>> >> The numbers report by speedtest bounce around a lot, and they tend t= o >>> >> pick a lower number as a final result than I'd >>> >> like. If there's a way to capture a movie of it... >>> >> > >>> >> > And I like the "monitor only" mode idea. >>> >> > Perhaps we could create the HTB tree, but just not attach the CAKE >>> qdisc? >>> >> > Technically even HTB could reduce latency by itself on overloaded >>> APs , so it wouldn't be true passive monitoring, but it would allow us = to >>> compare the before/after of CAKE while still having qdiscs we can point >>> cpumap-pping to. >>> >> > >>> >> > Alternatively, maybe we could use eBPF PPing just for this passive >>> monitoring period? >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQoS < >>> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Are you looking for a shaped result? That'll show "whatever >>> bandwidth >>> >> >> is left on the sector" without Libre, and around the customer's >>> paid-for >>> >> >> target with Libre (hopefully!). >>> >> >> >>> >> >> One thing Preseem does well is that their onboarding process >>> includes >>> >> >> "leave it in monitoring-only mode" for a week, gathering data >>> before you >>> >> >> pull the switch (although most ISPs I've talked to just pull the >>> switch...) >>> >> >> It's quite enlightening to see a before/after, even with only >>> FQ_CODEL >>> >> >> as the shaper. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> We could probably do something similar with a "monitor only" mode >>> that >>> >> >> doesn't enable any queues (is there a TC equivalent to "dummy" on >>> >> >> FreeBSD?). >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < >>> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> I am curious if anyone here has speedtest results with libreqos >>> on and >>> >> >>> off, and can send a screen shot? >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> -- >>> >> >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would wor= k: >>> >> >>> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366= 665607352320-FXtz >>> >> >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> LibreQoS mailing list >>> >> >>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> >> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> LibreQoS mailing list >>> >> >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > Robert Chac=C3=B3n >>> >> > CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> > LibreQoS mailing list >>> >> > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >>> >> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366= 665607352320-FXtz >>> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> LibreQoS mailing list >>> >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >>> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366= 665607352320-FXtz >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> LibreQoS mailing list >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >> > _______________________________________________ > LibreQoS mailing list > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > --00000000000070784e05ebca9005 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
we also have a bunch of 25/5.=C2=A0 It would be nice to ge= t some more detailed numbers from ookla tests.=C2=A0 We also have a lot of = Eero units out there, so watching for the eero speed test would also be gre= at.

On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 10:31 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.ne= t> wrote:
>=20 sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packet capture for x d= uration?

That's a good idea (I think ther= e's a service somewhere for finding speedtest
servers?). We&#= 39;re discussing testing the ack-filter feature right now, and something
similar would work well for that. (We have a bunch of 25/5 and simi= larly asymmetric
connections, in theory it'll help...)

On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 10:31 AM dan via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferbloa= t.net> wrote:
sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a = packet capture for x duration?

On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:27 AM Dave Taht <= ;dave.taht@gmail.c= om> wrote:
dandenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dave, I think that 'bouncing' is more CPU time in the browser.= =C2=A0 I don't think it's indicative over what's actually happe= ning.

A simultaneous packet capture and wireshark plot of the RTTs would
also be helpful.

>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:09 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.buf= ferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Robert Chac=C3=B3n via LibreQoS >> <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > I can run an Ookla test in the middle of the night with Libre= QoS off for a bit.
>>
>> Groovy.
>>
>> > From what I recall - without Libre we see download bloat of 3= 00ms or so. With Libre, it's gone. On waveform we see 0ms added bloat e= ach direction for most clients.
>>
>> The numbers report by speedtest bounce around a lot, and they tend= to
>> pick a lower number as a final result than I'd
>> like. If there's a way to capture a movie of it...
>> >
>> > And I like the "monitor only" mode idea.
>> > Perhaps we could create the HTB tree, but just not attach the= CAKE qdisc?
>> > Technically even HTB could reduce latency by itself on overlo= aded APs , so it wouldn't be true passive monitoring, but it would allo= w us to compare the before/after of CAKE while still having qdiscs we can p= oint cpumap-pping to.
>> >
>> > Alternatively, maybe we could use eBPF PPing just for this pa= ssive monitoring period?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQo= S <l= ibreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Are you looking for a shaped result? That'll show &qu= ot;whatever bandwidth
>> >> is left on the sector" without Libre, and around the= customer's paid-for
>> >> target with Libre (hopefully!).
>> >>
>> >> One thing Preseem does well is that their onboarding proc= ess includes
>> >> "leave it in monitoring-only mode" for a week, = gathering data before you
>> >> pull the switch (although most ISPs I've talked to ju= st pull the switch...)
>> >> It's quite enlightening to see a before/after, even w= ith only FQ_CODEL
>> >> as the shaper.
>> >>
>> >> We could probably do something similar with a "monit= or only" mode that
>> >> doesn't enable any queues (is there a TC equivalent t= o "dummy" on
>> >> FreeBSD?).
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS &l= t;libre= qos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I am curious if anyone here has speedtest results wit= h libreqos on and
>> >>> off, and can send a screen shot?
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadi= a would work:
>> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity= -6981366665607352320-FXtz
>> >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> LibreQoS mailing list
>> >>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/l= istinfo/libreqos
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> LibreQoS mailing list
>> >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listi= nfo/libreqos
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Robert Chac=C3=B3n
>> > CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > LibreQoS mailing list
>> > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/= libreqos
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:=
>> htt= ps://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666656073= 52320-FXtz
>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>> _______________________________________________
>> LibreQoS mailing list
>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libre= qos



--
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.= linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXt= z
Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
LibreQo= S@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
LibreQo= S@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
--00000000000070784e05ebca9005--