From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yb1-xb34.google.com (mail-yb1-xb34.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BE003B29E for ; Mon, 1 May 2023 06:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb34.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-b99efd7c335so3606965276.0 for ; Mon, 01 May 2023 03:48:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1682938103; x=1685530103; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=J/XwFgHX3cvK2aOKfm5jd2pwNn3DUDGJAttkSyYXuJA=; b=BPx++/rGDbYWx5044p5MQNH9xzk/00S3vw4GGRDwvAdMPwkGDQ8c2LxagCuTftckzp hc1Y/AjWpObwqE8JaZdPjCj17C+5fFGWHK0EVp3anDDDUY6HnFDB1yLtuDiOZ75S5a7K 73laQnslyIsMUvuToLy8QiT3QhJshl6nG5tR7z+qwJ0aHkKAJyHNhvuz4ch2Ahj2my56 MHTryrf0rwKGpoBwQcTmrm0q2+tuMN5f7u2jGti54kcDudxt8/0KI+QunxWWJrIwGxPb YBBrbkkdyJiygETnesN8z0CkYTbubWXw3kOXdPloDLg9GnTEzb8eFlkod7Oacj274OjU pFqw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1682938103; x=1685530103; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=J/XwFgHX3cvK2aOKfm5jd2pwNn3DUDGJAttkSyYXuJA=; b=gCreRxYz46BlR4Vz4HEI9wxu9LQmKyk3C8TKHjVXa9ylX/fQPt99b3SgZYhmwMLmtc maTQvDKjRodOAersYGrLtsX1ssumF90Iz93/NPZNmuJueWMh0/XF3QQty8gswgtq+aPd Pb4o9XvkvVG57diqgFp7oaUr0ieyUDdweMlDOst8viXTQ19A3dS9mJiwOOuYE/4sK+kn 5xnm7j6CFlV25lV+7J6gY3PuVVIUoGzXtr05R1RgzqY8NNKVAOfXXgZ2occkZCKhzvmh eRJGMfa/W9AJ3BwmUMSOAzI3v6r9O3xwlvtSMgfG00bdAIb6D6HCA25Ofn5WNJ5nd3Yw Ysjg== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDxbsGE/XJg9p9crnyk9B7jUiFajwyrNchTVNkG280VInshwHBml UH/skWrV9CgM1szrd7/6MPKtjel4xhf81VqQr8ajC3/hhfY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ4ZqGqqZEOme3t8LTygGgS8jHH17AmnXwNUgylFUxkY9sL1IaTRAWb26nloPn/tl+qW5tWCtR2PQvh4hkbGqd4= X-Received: by 2002:a25:8c1:0:b0:b8f:3a83:a16c with SMTP id 184-20020a2508c1000000b00b8f3a83a16cmr11748443ybi.58.1682938103464; Mon, 01 May 2023 03:48:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: dan Date: Mon, 1 May 2023 04:48:12 -0600 Message-ID: To: Frantisek Borsik Cc: Dave Taht , libreqos Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="000000000000d65e2805fa9f8f82" Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] Fwd: Broadband Accountability Brief X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2023 10:48:24 -0000 --000000000000d65e2805fa9f8f82 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d65e2705fa9f8f81" --000000000000d65e2705fa9f8f81 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For one, the testing data needs to include more increments. This is capitalism (in theory) so if you want a measure of consumer choice you need.... choices. showing a DSL or an aging wisp or other <=3D10Mbps servi= ce and having a 200-300Mbps docsis offering overbuilt via gov' funds at twice the price is really not choice. I hate to say this because I'm typing this on my shiny macbook pro 16 m2.... but this is the apple model. Simply don't make products in the bottom or even medium end of the market and then you dont have to worry about those products cannibalising the higher end products. Why doesn't spectrum/comcast/etc offer a 100x25 service? because it would be 10-15 less than their 200-300 and some not unsubstantial percent of users would choose that because of the price and be very happy with it. And frankly, they WOULD be very happy with it. These programs that are about whomever can deliver gigabit first getting the government supported monopoly are the opposite of every merit based selection mechanism in capitalism. There seems to be a presumption that if you can just get 'fiber' to the home that the internet will be great, but that's just not reflected in the ratings and reviews of providers across the gambut. You'll see wisps offering quite low speeds with very high ratings and fttx providers with gig service getting really poor reviews. If one of these low reviewed companies is first to market with that gig (and they are... a lot...their business model is to use government funds to build out...) then the consumer didn't get a choice, there is no competition to give consumers a choice. This is basically a giant nanny-state model. The government 'knows better' than the consumer and will pick the technology and the company to deliver it. On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 3:51=E2=80=AFAM Frantisek Borsik wrote: > Indeed. I highly doubt that there's any hope in this regard. > > Anyway, Dan, can You think of any possible incremental improvements that > You can come up with, as a layman? > > > All the best, > > Frank > > Frantisek (Frank) Borsik > > > > https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik > > Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 > > iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 > > Skype: casioa5302ca > > frantisek.borsik@gmail.com > > > On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 11:47=E2=80=AFAM dan wrote: > >> I had a long response typed out here but I decided to simplify. This >> brief does what a lot do. 'trust us, our tests compensate for wifi'. oh >> yeah? how so? much of the same bad information gathering and false >> conclusions follow. >> >> >> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 3:16=E2=80=AFAM Frantisek Borsik via LibreQoS < >> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >> >>> And so, how to get from ISP claim to ISP proof? Upscaling anything like >>> this SamKnows' thing with US government from the past? >>> https://samknows.com/blog/mba-retrospective >>> >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Frank >>> >>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik >>> >>> >>> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik >>> >>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 >>> >>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 >>> >>> Skype: casioa5302ca >>> >>> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 12:02=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < >>> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>> From: Thomas Reid >>>> Date: Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 11:03=E2=80=AFAM >>>> Subject: Broadband Accountability Brief >>>> To: National Broadband Mapping Coalition < >>>> bbcoalition@marconisociety.org> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello All, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thought at least some of you may appreciate the attached brief on >>>> achieving accountability in broadband. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Take care, >>>> >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Tom Reid* >>>> >>>> Reid Consulting Group LLC >>>> >>>> 740-590-0076 >>>> >>>> Tom@ReidConsultingGroup.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "National Broadband Mapping Coalition" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to BBCoalition+unsubscribe@marconisociety.org. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/PH8= PR11MB6879B0D32296F3BDA42A9425BA6B9%40PH8PR11MB6879.namprd11.prod.outlook.c= om >>>> >>>> . >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AMA March 31: >>>> https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht >>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> LibreQoS mailing list >>>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> LibreQoS mailing list >>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>> >> --000000000000d65e2705fa9f8f81 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For one, the testing data needs to include more increments= .=C2=A0 This is capitalism (in theory) so if you want a measure of consumer= choice you need.... choices.=C2=A0 showing a DSL or an aging wisp or other= <=3D10Mbps service and having a 200-300Mbps docsis offering overbuilt v= ia gov' funds at twice the price is really not choice.=C2=A0

I h= ate to say this because I'm typing this on my shiny=C2=A0macbook pro 16= m2.... but this is the apple model.=C2=A0 Simply don't make products i= n the bottom or even medium end of the market and then you dont have to wor= ry about those products cannibalising=C2=A0the higher end products.=C2=A0 W= hy doesn't spectrum/comcast/etc offer a 100x25 service?=C2=A0 because i= t would be 10-15 less than their 200-300 and some not unsubstantial percent= of users would choose that because of the price and be very happy with it.= =C2=A0 And frankly, they WOULD be very happy with it.

These programs= that are about whomever can deliver gigabit first getting the government s= upported monopoly are the opposite of every merit based selection mechanism= in capitalism.

There seems to be a presumption that if = you can just get 'fiber' to the home that the internet will be grea= t, but that's just not reflected in the ratings and reviews of provider= s across the gambut.=C2=A0 You'll see wisps offering quite low speeds w= ith very high ratings and fttx providers with gig service getting really po= or reviews.=C2=A0 If one of these low reviewed companies is first to market= with that gig (and they are... a lot...their business model is to use gove= rnment funds to build out...) then the consumer didn't get a choice, th= ere is no competition to give consumers a choice.

This is basically = a giant nanny-state model.=C2=A0 The government 'knows better' than= the consumer and will pick the technology and the company to deliver it.

On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 3:51=E2=80=AFAM Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com> wrote= :
Indeed. I highly doubt that there's any hope in this regard.
Anyway, Dan, can You think of any possible incremental improvem= ents that You can come up with, as a layman?


<= div>
All the best,

=

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik<= u>

=C2=A0

https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik<= u>

Signa= l, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714=C2=A0

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885

Skype: cas= ioa5302ca

frantisek.borsik@gmail.com



On = Mon, May 1, 2023 at 11:47=E2=80=AFAM dan <dandenson@gmail.com> wrote:
I had a long= response typed out here but I decided to simplify.=C2=A0 This brief does w= hat a lot do. 'trust us, our tests compensate for wifi'.=C2=A0 oh y= eah?=C2=A0 how so?=C2=A0 much of the same bad information gathering and fal= se conclusions follow.=C2=A0


On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 3:16=E2= =80=AFAM Frantisek Borsik via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> = wrote:
And so, how to get from ISP claim to ISP proof? Upscaling anything= like this SamKnows' thing with US government from the past?
https:/= /samknows.com/blog/mba-retrospective


=
All the best,

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

= =C2=A0

https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik=

Signal,= Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714=C2=A0

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885<= u>

Skype: casio= a5302ca

frantisek.borsik@gmail.com

=


On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 12:02=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <libreqos@list= s.bufferbloat.net> wrote:


---------- Forwarded message ---------
F= rom: Thomas Reid <= span dir=3D"auto"><Tom@reidconsultinggroup.com>
Date: Fri, Apr 28= , 2023 at 11:03=E2=80=AFAM
Subject: Broadband Accountability Brief
To= : National Broadband Mapping Coalition <bbcoalition@marconisociety.org><= br>


Hello All,

=C2=A0

Thought at least some of you may appreciate the atta= ched brief on achieving accountability in broadband.

=C2=A0

Take care,

Tom

=C2=A0

Tom Reid

Reid Consulting Group LLC=

740-590-0076

Tom@ReidConsultingGroup.com

=C2=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;National Broadband Mapping Coalition" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to BBCoalition+unsubscribe@marconisociety.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/marconisoc= iety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/PH8PR11MB6879B0D32296F3BDA42A9425BA6B9%40PH8PR= 11MB6879.namprd11.prod.outlook.com.


--
Dave T=C3= =A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
LibreQo= S@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
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