From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 260303B29D; Fri, 11 Nov 2022 18:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2b.google.com with SMTP id g127so7431404ybg.8; Fri, 11 Nov 2022 15:49:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=bpGNyXT4e1KzpYgooTPoeKfG+CrL0ftZ92hHL1awCjI=; b=WdfqXRSQeyApY/ca+g+PTZX1qpuE+seFKi2ZxRT5ETOiZCw1ciYZrb808aBOZugk4c XAuM2+AXUP916bp0Y5ppLoPH3myDUq03cIcnZRBuN+hNOpfF1EA9Ij460Fy+IwgrWBhH 6bcsSHRGbMX2I/5NW5WnixdR+Lld6DpDCaPF+28wmpv32ryMov4wKea1XzEnN8h8v205 TSDVxCHVUwe1P4WMIXvIxpS5aGoBuTt/CBaXlDv37N/P0b8WI8yUeN2StiPG91bd4xfC eid+03DAd/TqwqUrCiz5Ue3rd7wMSucbOZ7wiz01dIyraFmi6SSBqXm2aF+7So3nCGrq q/rQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=bpGNyXT4e1KzpYgooTPoeKfG+CrL0ftZ92hHL1awCjI=; b=5nB3GQUuMLMUx6iC9zqYfdk5HvsjG91yFc7huHQlDhN1UOPTdC9pGJuQhZenhE/9z4 bH7jm/+hdApAsUb2YToFsl/9YTfB2ZeMjK7ZVxq8RrIFjNROWR8bqc02ev0Bd5min2L3 VeRe4DL/fcwpeBJ0XfeX/2ORfXAKf80BqJubspqKCEOLRyRarJWlpqlfH98CUhYKC0d3 uF0IxPrg7339wD+Sh8VjB+41U8eb1fXRV/Yo0si1rYshhBTP7LeL9WioCGio/RFDWyS0 dYbkNzgNuzerFK70MurA9Byc36J3kqT1QaEQZT1pHhK05CjpFSmoymIUeUC71G6Zf8zS YA2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ANoB5pk5KWXpwmFtohPbHdUVQ3bgAkNCH30gi58v19XUFk9gPFD3YqOo QwFdNeTPnykBXoOh1N+g31QVGavI4hPBxI6xtKNzT5blI+dnAw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA0mqf7MRVhs7Qd+6vehDNzvGLOQ3pZ1eqW/kdak3i2Om8AkRw4tY5jI+2tx0tKBacNSJ8y8rEEcyWs8PQFqGSLy8qk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:118e:b0:6cf:fc82:95c3 with SMTP id m14-20020a056902118e00b006cffc8295c3mr3858010ybu.406.1668210547234; Fri, 11 Nov 2022 15:49:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: dan Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 16:48:56 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: libreqos , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000141d8005ed3a89c7" Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] summarizing the bitag latency report? X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 23:49:08 -0000 --000000000000141d8005ed3a89c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I used to run a pizza franchise so I go back to that a lot haha. Latency (when talking to an end user) is the time between when you order your pizza and it shows up at your door. The streets to your house are the internet. If the streets are clear and the weather's good and the pizza store is running smoothly, it'll arrive when expected. If the roads are terrible, or traffic is heavy it'll be late. If there roads are packed or congested, or if they are in bad shape, or too small, or the pizza place is just really far away, then the pizza is going to take more time to get there. The pizza delivery guy takes more time to get to their first delivery, and then more time to get to you, then more time to get back. I also lean on this to describe internet 'speed' as 'capacity' and say it's a misnomer. It doesn't matter how much pizza you order, the 'speed' is how quickly they process your order and get it to you which is heavily dependent on the latency details. If you order more pizza, it takes a bigger bag and then eventually a bigger vehicle but since the pizza guy doesn't have a semi, he has to take multiple trips if you order too much. Speed is the capacity of his car. Mbps is pizza pies per car. Am I getting into the weeds to much here lol On Fri, Nov 11, 2022 at 4:16 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > If you were to try to summarize this *in a paragraph*, what would you say= ? > > https://www.bitag.org/documents/BITAG_latency_explained.pdf > > (yes, I helped write this, but squeezing it down to less than 3 pages > is beyond my capabilities, much less a paragraph, and by the time we > hit the recommendations section, things had got too political to make > sane recommendations) > > Also QoS, vs QoE. Try to imagine explaining the need to a CFO, or > congresscritter. Feel free to take more than a paragraph. > > > -- > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: > > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-698136666= 5607352320-FXtz > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > _______________________________________________ > LibreQoS mailing list > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > --000000000000141d8005ed3a89c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I used to run a pizza franchise so I go back to that a lot= haha.=C2=A0 Latency (when talking to an end user) is the time between when= you order your pizza and it shows up at your door.=C2=A0 The streets to yo= ur house are the internet.=C2=A0 If the streets are clear and the weather&#= 39;s good and the pizza store is running smoothly, it'll arrive when ex= pected.=C2=A0 If the roads are terrible, or traffic is heavy it'll be l= ate.=C2=A0 =C2=A0If there roads are packed or congested, or if they are in = bad shape, or too small, or the pizza place is just really far away, then t= he pizza is going to take more time to get there.=C2=A0 The pizza delivery = guy takes more time to get to their first delivery, and then more time to g= et to you, then more time to get back.=C2=A0=C2=A0

I also lean on th= is to describe internet 'speed' as 'capacity' and say it= 9;s a misnomer.=C2=A0 It doesn't matter how much pizza you order, the &= #39;speed' is how quickly they process your order and get it to you whi= ch is heavily dependent on the latency details.=C2=A0 If you order more piz= za, it takes a bigger bag and then eventually a bigger vehicle but since th= e pizza guy doesn't have a semi, he has to take multiple trips if you o= rder too much.=C2=A0 Speed is the capacity of his car.=C2=A0 Mbps is pizza = pies per car.

Am I getting into the weeds to much here lol

=
On Fri, No= v 11, 2022 at 4:16 PM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
If you were to try to= summarize this *in a paragraph*, what would you say?

https://www.bitag.org/documents/BITAG_lat= ency_explained.pdf

(yes, I helped write this, but squeezing it down to less than 3 pages
is beyond my capabilities, much less a paragraph, and by the time we
hit the recommendations section, things had got too political to make
sane recommendations)

Also QoS, vs QoE. Try to imagine explaining the need to a CFO, or
congresscritter. Feel free to take more than a paragraph.


--
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.= linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXt= z
Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
LibreQo= S@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
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