From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-x112b.google.com (mail-yw1-x112b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03FF83B29E for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 11:31:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yw1-x112b.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-368edbc2c18so88493337b3.13 for ; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 08:31:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ALHELeZt2VF8RFajRXdXjdkVV8B7ax2kS4rPfBqGjVg=; b=DY6OqhUBrTLPbLKrieGqluxDq7IHTEPimDug6D847dLD7CGLkZOCN9nQHlLlIHdMsV Cwc1rP5WYWfysL9kg6Z3gM9AoPpSq5WrINy5t0N1uQk8RkD48uGKp3A2Uh/+iO+qPopc GKMrbqT7NnuvysIj8jwfG4Hc6dxDrrdWnEBEdnf0C5z1UNYFyCKX86JsUe1stoTSHaHQ ZxxiiKvW0zW08U9J0FtRY84FWyd5OhTY6NzRgAxLoJ2iRg0VFmfNMVfTp1pkSP5XZIUm DJZ7cq0aeEKLv5BvrTpIjHTG8nwqoI50Ebeixupf9S5BcuJTfhU+hjnqWdXTXJWJJNuc RUAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=ALHELeZt2VF8RFajRXdXjdkVV8B7ax2kS4rPfBqGjVg=; b=vecfpVzUopAt17+FkR+Bhe5oOah7GD7cqiZ3Z6lZhjayXbx6y6+r8ooZ3aidg5GHEO a0obF9ooZt+lHERyTE5iE66Juyx9iy4VraCcR8xoAT89eTneRkU3JOD6vd30TL1/04WJ 4e3MvOn9S4Nxgh+90Qz9aLTrOgB2fe6LwyNFZ7BBF1yJC0Cy7K6qbpyFtV5d/qIbt3fP 7PfsrSvUUfrD2QeAPM7Zr/uDR/Spp5FYhT/NO15KKIDnDVggzKceMiCGfmLld/vyO/04 6L3sO+h6p+p8KuqCN3+/hkftNobJjZDJ/P+zrWwjTkOp5BmxmDaYcT9w+Dup6kDF4mgB 2jSA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf0+2ohDl4EmvGfZI12ioMmadxTATU33VQI/6Pd3mUnX9J2HrSkb WLoNxZX/8YMzaN1gVYtl7yY/nxI86zo/9OkDCxj5oveGRY0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM4qbJk/e/6SjFWjr7MKKWti8uaj/Nzmw1Nr3q17e/sQppXZMGg3zOR7JENM+5OrpGdHh5L8zheKpfkSDk+hlp4= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:f706:0:b0:353:f9a8:1f79 with SMTP id h6-20020a0df706000000b00353f9a81f79mr31452050ywf.371.1666625494372; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 08:31:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: dan Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 09:31:25 -0600 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Robert_Chac=C3=B3n?= , libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000090d85c05ebc97cd2" Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] ookla speedtest results? X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2022 15:31:35 -0000 --00000000000090d85c05ebc97cd2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packet capture for x duration? On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:27 AM Dave Taht wrote: > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:20 AM dan wrote: > > > > Dave, I think that 'bouncing' is more CPU time in the browser. I don't > think it's indicative over what's actually happening. > > A simultaneous packet capture and wireshark plot of the RTTs would > also be helpful. > > > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:09 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < > libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Robert Chac=C3=B3n via LibreQoS > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > I can run an Ookla test in the middle of the night with LibreQoS off > for a bit. > >> > >> Groovy. > >> > >> > From what I recall - without Libre we see download bloat of 300ms or > so. With Libre, it's gone. On waveform we see 0ms added bloat each > direction for most clients. > >> > >> The numbers report by speedtest bounce around a lot, and they tend to > >> pick a lower number as a final result than I'd > >> like. If there's a way to capture a movie of it... > >> > > >> > And I like the "monitor only" mode idea. > >> > Perhaps we could create the HTB tree, but just not attach the CAKE > qdisc? > >> > Technically even HTB could reduce latency by itself on overloaded AP= s > , so it wouldn't be true passive monitoring, but it would allow us to > compare the before/after of CAKE while still having qdiscs we can point > cpumap-pping to. > >> > > >> > Alternatively, maybe we could use eBPF PPing just for this passive > monitoring period? > >> > > >> > > >> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQoS < > libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Are you looking for a shaped result? That'll show "whatever bandwid= th > >> >> is left on the sector" without Libre, and around the customer's > paid-for > >> >> target with Libre (hopefully!). > >> >> > >> >> One thing Preseem does well is that their onboarding process includ= es > >> >> "leave it in monitoring-only mode" for a week, gathering data befor= e > you > >> >> pull the switch (although most ISPs I've talked to just pull the > switch...) > >> >> It's quite enlightening to see a before/after, even with only > FQ_CODEL > >> >> as the shaper. > >> >> > >> >> We could probably do something similar with a "monitor only" mode > that > >> >> doesn't enable any queues (is there a TC equivalent to "dummy" on > >> >> FreeBSD?). > >> >> > >> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < > libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> I am curious if anyone here has speedtest results with libreqos on > and > >> >>> off, and can send a screen shot? > >> >>> > >> >>> -- > >> >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: > >> >>> > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-698136666= 5607352320-FXtz > >> >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> LibreQoS mailing list > >> >>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> LibreQoS mailing list > >> >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Robert Chac=C3=B3n > >> > CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > LibreQoS mailing list > >> > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: > >> > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-698136666= 5607352320-FXtz > >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > >> _______________________________________________ > >> LibreQoS mailing list > >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos > > > > -- > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: > > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-698136666= 5607352320-FXtz > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > --00000000000090d85c05ebc97cd2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
sniff DNS for those speed test lookups and trigger a packe= t capture for x duration?

On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:27 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 = at 8:20 AM dan <dandenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dave, I think that 'bouncing' is more CPU time in the browser.= =C2=A0 I don't think it's indicative over what's actually happe= ning.

A simultaneous packet capture and wireshark plot of the RTTs would
also be helpful.

>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 9:09 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.buf= ferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Robert Chac=C3=B3n via LibreQoS >> <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > I can run an Ookla test in the middle of the night with Libre= QoS off for a bit.
>>
>> Groovy.
>>
>> > From what I recall - without Libre we see download bloat of 3= 00ms or so. With Libre, it's gone. On waveform we see 0ms added bloat e= ach direction for most clients.
>>
>> The numbers report by speedtest bounce around a lot, and they tend= to
>> pick a lower number as a final result than I'd
>> like. If there's a way to capture a movie of it...
>> >
>> > And I like the "monitor only" mode idea.
>> > Perhaps we could create the HTB tree, but just not attach the= CAKE qdisc?
>> > Technically even HTB could reduce latency by itself on overlo= aded APs , so it wouldn't be true passive monitoring, but it would allo= w us to compare the before/after of CAKE while still having qdiscs we can p= oint cpumap-pping to.
>> >
>> > Alternatively, maybe we could use eBPF PPing just for this pa= ssive monitoring period?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:02 AM Herbert Wolverson via LibreQo= S <l= ibreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Are you looking for a shaped result? That'll show &qu= ot;whatever bandwidth
>> >> is left on the sector" without Libre, and around the= customer's paid-for
>> >> target with Libre (hopefully!).
>> >>
>> >> One thing Preseem does well is that their onboarding proc= ess includes
>> >> "leave it in monitoring-only mode" for a week, = gathering data before you
>> >> pull the switch (although most ISPs I've talked to ju= st pull the switch...)
>> >> It's quite enlightening to see a before/after, even w= ith only FQ_CODEL
>> >> as the shaper.
>> >>
>> >> We could probably do something similar with a "monit= or only" mode that
>> >> doesn't enable any queues (is there a TC equivalent t= o "dummy" on
>> >> FreeBSD?).
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dave Taht via LibreQoS &l= t;libre= qos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> I am curious if anyone here has speedtest results wit= h libreqos on and
>> >>> off, and can send a screen shot?
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadi= a would work:
>> >>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity= -6981366665607352320-FXtz
>> >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> LibreQoS mailing list
>> >>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/l= istinfo/libreqos
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> LibreQoS mailing list
>> >> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listi= nfo/libreqos
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Robert Chac=C3=B3n
>> > CEO | JackRabbit Wireless LLC
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > LibreQoS mailing list
>> > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/= libreqos
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:=
>> htt= ps://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666656073= 52320-FXtz
>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>> _______________________________________________
>> LibreQoS mailing list
>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libre= qos



--
This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
https://www.= linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXt= z
Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
--00000000000090d85c05ebc97cd2--