Thanks for sharing, Are you aware that after receiving ISOC training at the INET 99 networking workshop for developing countries in San Jose way back in 1999 - I went back to my (then) home country, Kenya, and built/started KIXP with assistance from Cisco and hands on support from Barry Raveendran Greene (formerly Cisco)? Thereafter and for next 8 odd years as GM for AfrISPA (African ISP Association) I turned up or helped turn up IXPs in about 12 other African countries - mostly funded under a project called “Catalysing Access to ICTs in Africa” funded by UKs DFID, Canada’s IDRC and others. I even did a couple of trips with Bill Woodcock in Africa and Asia. Ta, Brian On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 at 4:28 PM, Dave Taht via LibreQoS < libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > I would like to bring back the IXP concepts in the USA. > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Jane Coffin > Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: [New post] More Mapping Drama > To: Garland McCoy > Cc: Dave Taht , National Broadband Mapping Coalition > , Bill Woodcock > > > Actually. Bill is one of the IXP masters, but.... > > ISOC has done a helluva lot of IXP build around the world, and I would > tip my hat to Michuki Mwangi (ISOC) and Nishal Goburdhan (PCH) along with > some folks at Netnod (Swedish exchange), and INEX (Irish exchange - used > those cats for training and they came up with the brilliant app - IXP > Manager). I also would tag Philip Smith (NSRC and father of BGP and LINX), > Christian O'Flaherty - one of my partners in crime on IXP build, Hisham > Ibrahim (formerly with AfriNIC and now with RIPE NCC), Jan Zorz (was with > ISOC now a v6 evangelist), Karen Rose (formerly with ISOC), Naveed Haq and > Aftab Siddiqui (of ISOC), Brent McIntosh (Grenada), and Bevil Wooding > (formerly with PCH and now with ARIN). I also would note the amazing work > that the IXP Associations have done around the planet, and note the Peering > Forums - PIFs that ISOC with partners like PCH created around the world - > except for the US. AfPIF - the African Peering and Interconnection Forum > and CarPIF - the Caribbean Peering and Interconnection Forum, BKNIX, the > Bangkok Peering forum. One can't talk about IXPs without a nod to NOGs > (Network Operator Groups). The US had the first NOG - NANOG, and they have > taken off from there. ISOC uses NOGs, and PIFs, and IXPs, and the RIRs to > promote Mutually Agreed Norms for Routing Security (MANRS)...great > initiative and I would urge anyone looking at secure routing to chat with > them and the RIRs (RPKI etc). > > Note that ISOC is the only org that has put out multiple studies that show > over time and via snapshots the importance of IXPs to build your local > Internet, increase resilience, allow for redundancy of nets at the local > level, and has tracked how much latency diminishes, performance increases, > and how quickly prices drop. > > Big Telcos in the US nearly killed bottom-up carrier neutral IXPs. Thank > goodness for ISOC, the RIRs (LACNIC, AfriNIC, ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE NCC), > ICANN, IETF to a degree, NSRC, PCH, the NOGs, and the Peering Fora for > keeping network training, the importance of diverse peering ecosystems, and > the IXPs that are making a resurgence in the US. > > It takes a village. A well-trained diverse village. > > On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:51 AM Garland McCoy > wrote: > >> Dave, I am sure Jane would agree that THE global master IXP builder is >> Bill Woodcock and his colleagues at Packet Clearing House ( >> https://www.pch.net/) Bill has been doing this for decades (and decades >> and decades). I have cced him in so you can circle the wagons. If by any >> chance you want SECURE Edges as part of your IXP deployment you should look >> up Onclave Networks (see link below) >> >> https://onclavenetworks.com/ >> >> >> >> On Apr 10, 2023, at 9:40 AM, Jane Coffin >> wrote: >> >> Dave - >> >> On IXPs - I can give you a lot of global examples. On the US - less so. >> One of the founders of SF-MIX is at Connect Humanity and is talking to some >> folks about neutral/bottom-up IXPs - ISOC style, IFX, Euro-IX, Af-IX, >> LAC-IX, and AP-IX style. >> >> ISOC also has some excellent reports that show the impact of IXPs in >> countries - cheaper, better, faster local connectivity - and local >> resiliency and redundancy vs tromboning traffic that benefits >> transit/transport vs local fabric. >> >> Jane >> >> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:08 AM Dave Taht wrote: >> >>> While I frequently do not agree with doug´s blog, he does make for >>> interesting reading, and oy! a bill to slow things down further... :( >>> >>> I am also curious as to the state of the cybergeography these days. >>> (anyone remember this old project? >>> >>> https://web.archive.org/web/20060218123215/http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/topology.html >>> ) >>> >>> I have been researching the state of the IXPs nowadays, and kind of >>> wondering if there was a noticeable difference in service quality between >>> cities with IXPs and those without. Anyone? >>> >>> >>> https://www.pch.net/ixp/summary_growth_by_country#!mt-sort=ixp_current%2Cdesc!mt-pivot=ixp_current >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>> From: POTs and PANs >>> Date: Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 4:35 AM >>> Subject: [New post] More Mapping Drama >>> To: >>> >>> >>> [image: Site logo image] Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting posted: "As if the >>> federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen (Dem-Nevada) >>> and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162 that would >>> “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are allocated under >>> the Broadband Equity, " POTs and PANs More >>> Mapping Drama >>> >>> >>> Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting >>> Apr 10 >>> >>> >>> As >>> if the federal mapping process needed more drama, Senator Jacky Rosen >>> (Dem-Nevada) and John Thune (Rep-South Dakota) have introduced bill S.1162 >>> that would “ensure that broadband maps are accurate before funds are >>> allocated under the Broadband Equity, Access, and Deployment Program based >>> on those maps”. >>> >>> If this law is enacted, the distribution of most of the BEAD grant funds >>> to States would be delayed by at least six months, probably longer. The >>> NTIA has already said that it intends to announce the allocation of the >>> $42.5 billion in grants to the states on June 30. The funds are supposed to >>> be allocated using the best count of unserved and underserved locations in >>> each state on that date. Unserved locations are those that can’t buy >>> broadband of at least 25/3 Mbps. Underserved locations are those unable to >>> buy broadband with speeds of at least 100/20 Mbps. >>> >>> To add to the story, FCC Commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel recently >>> announced that the FCC has largely completed the broadband map updates. >>> That announcement surprised the folks in the industry who have been working >>> with the map data, since everybody I talk to is still seeing a lot of >>> inaccuracies in the maps. >>> >>> To the FCC’s credit, its vendor CostQuest has been processing thousands >>> of individual challenges to the maps daily and has addressed 600 bulk >>> challenges that have been filed by States, counties, and other local >>> government entities. In making the announcement, Rosenworcel said that the >>> new map has added over one million new locations to the broadband map – >>> homes and businesses that were missed in the creation of the first version >>> of the map last fall. >>> >>> But the FCC map has two important components that must be correct for >>> the overall maps to be correct. The first is the mapping fabric that is >>> supposed to identify every location in the country that is a potential >>> broadband customer. I view this as a nearly impossible task. The US Census >>> spends many billions every ten years to identify the addresses of residents >>> and businesses in the country. CostQuest tried to duplicate the same thing >>> on a much smaller budget and with the time pressure of the maps being used >>> to allocate these grants. It’s challenging to count potential broadband >>> customers. I wrote a blog last year >>> that >>> outlined a few of the dozens of issues that must be addressed to get an >>> accurate map. It’s hard to think that CostQuest somehow figured out all of >>> these complicated questions in the last six months. >>> >>> Even if the fabric is much improved, the more important issue is that >>> the accuracy of the broadband map is reliant on two issues that are >>> reported by ISPs – the coverage area where an ISP should be able to connect >>> a new customer within ten days of a request, and the broadband speeds that >>> are available to a home or business at each location. >>> >>> ISPs are pretty much free to claim whatever they want. While there has >>> been a lot of work done to challenge the fabric and the location of >>> possible customers – it’s a lot harder to challenge the coverage claims of >>> specific ISPs. A true challenge would require many millions of individual >>> challenges about the broadband that is available at each home. >>> >>> Just consider my own home. The national broadband map says there are ten >>> ISPs available at my address. Several I’ve never heard of, and I’m willing >>> to bet that at least a few of them can’t serve me – but since I’m already >>> buying broadband from an ISP, I can’t think of any reason that would lead >>> me to challenge the claims of the ISPs I’m not using. The FCC thinks that >>> the challenge process will somehow fix the coverage issue – I can’t imagine >>> that more than a tiny fraction of folks are ever going to care enough to go >>> through the FCC map challenge process – or even know that the broadband map >>> exists. >>> >>> The FCC mapping has also not yet figured out how to come to grips with >>> broadband coverage claimed by wireless ISPs. It’s not hard looking through >>> the FCC data to find numerous WISPs that claim large coverage areas. In >>> real life, the availability of a wireless connection is complicated. The >>> FCC reporting is in the process of requiring wireless carriers to report >>> using a ‘heat map’ that shows the strength of the wireless signal at >>> various distances from each individual radio. But even these heat maps >>> won’t tell the full story. WISPs are sometimes able to find ways to serve >>> customers that are not within easy reach of a tower. But just like with >>> cellphone coverage, there are usually plenty of dead zones around a radio >>> that can’t be reached but that will still be claimed on a heat map - heat >>> maps are nothing more than a rough approximation of actual coverage. It’s >>> hard to imagine that wireless coverage areas will ever be fully accurate. >>> >>> DSL coverage over telephone copper is equally impossible to map >>> correctly, and there are still places where DSL is claimed but which can't >>> be served. >>> >>> Broadband speeds are even harder to challenge. Under the FCC mapping >>> rules, ISPs are allowed to claim marketing speeds. If an ISP markets >>> broadband as capable of 100/20 Mbps, they can claim that speed on the >>> broadband map. It doesn’t matter if the actual broadband delivered is only >>> a fraction of that speed. There are so many factors that affect broadband >>> speeds that the maps will never accurately depict the speeds folks can >>> really buy. It’s amazingly disingenuous for the FCC to say the maps are >>> accurate. The best we could ever hope for is that the maps will be better >>> if, and only if ISPs scrupulously follow the reporting rules – but nobody >>> thinks that is going to happen. >>> >>> I understand the frustration of the Senators who are suggesting this >>> legislation. But I also think that we’ll never get an accurate set of maps. >>> Don’t forget that Congress created the requirement to use the maps to >>> allocate the BEAD grant dollars. Grant funding could have been done in >>> other ways that didn't relay on the maps. I don’t think it’s going to make >>> much difference if we delay six months, a year, or four years – the maps >>> are going to remain consistently inconsistent. >>> Comment >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> Unsubscribe >>> >>> to no longer receive posts from POTs and PANs. >>> Change your email settings at manage subscriptions. >>> >>> Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: >>> https://potsandpansbyccg.com/2023/04/10/more-mapping-drama/ >>> >>> Get the Jetpack app to use Reader anywhere, anytime >>> Follow your favorite sites, save posts to read later, and get real-time >>> notifications for likes and comments. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> [image: WordPress.com Logo and Wordmark title=] >>> >>> Learn how to build your website with our video tutorials on YouTube >>> . >>> >>> >>> Automattic, Inc. - 60 29th St. #343, San Francisco, CA 94110 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AMA March 31: >>> https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht >>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "National Broadband Mapping Coalition" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to BBCoalition+unsubscribe@marconisociety.org. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/CAA93jw7BmWMw-yeovaQsC-sK2Ufdzp3Dnv-hT4hdqBGoOwjFxg%40mail.gmail.com >>> >>> . >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "National Broadband Mapping Coalition" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to BBCoalition+unsubscribe@marconisociety.org. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/CAAk_8j0vm0Gsj%3DmOP0LLw3C-kUhk8knZaKK-BPXPSB4B8e1vnQ%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> >> >> Garland T. McCoy | Co-Founder & Executive Director | PAgCASA (Precision Ag >> Connectivity & Accuracy Stakeholder Alliance) | www.pagcasa.org >> | garland.mccoy@pagcasa.org >> | Adjunct Professor, >> Syracuse University >> iSchool | gmccoy@syr.edu | 202-906-0654 >> >> >> > > -- > AMA March 31: https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht > Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > _______________________________________________ > LibreQoS mailing list > LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >