From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Authentication-Results: mail.toke.dk; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=; dkim=fail; arc=none (Message is not ARC signed); dmarc=fail (Used From Domain Record) header.from=uvic.ca policy.dmarc=none Received: from mail-yx1-f41.google.com (mail-yx1-f41.google.com [74.125.224.41]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 873D792F2BB for ; Fri, 07 Nov 2025 18:52:38 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail-yx1-f41.google.com with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-63f95dc176fso1020846d50.1 for ; Fri, 07 Nov 2025 09:52:38 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1762537957; x=1763142757; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=owmrg5onFoYoIY9FTiCp4HzRuGeEsgr6TOrm57tjRd4=; b=fFJq75tquleg5Gw4fHihhDDMMHNWG7hJjiZFjw74gYI5uIWfWKWbKeNjPqW9b4SrBN NmhxexBITxI1ikqJxmLh5QZ7vYI+P6szlDhy/pDmikLhSGDhCioNvASWufyjheo0NV5d 5T2PQP90gq/tjn0pM4MhjHvgkFMuBmJv9NSjJOwagSOg/12JMM08LR8KCNks6AQNH26A MK2qQPYbimTlhM/wFMvOsvAY/Nqr9qJbCjb42BR2KH7WNN2o6BY6WyTd2h7BKWup/3hB M1qiRNcCIAHFv0p+0Rc3xiuUbCHPtNFTh79PR6NBTbLQOg0ENPGo/LeJ4Cw60wgpb6xj uOmA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWHcjo7qu2DJBFsdztqOfYs29m9qGKiSo5l2p2nMFI1b6ofs90uW4p/Yn6siJAS4jeqkzI0hbGtdQ==@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxz7J1K/OoEJywBsLDpWBvsZ7FKlM+hxBoO2UfGW2VhiiOzHu06 gB9j3wqIlueNBqJGzgvRvxg7fhYYCFblKvBQ6FDQTWTPNqZkRrhV9zTLEFcs8qYFYdlNP0VBhQh 9LhxUCDVbT72E1Y/JmppNAqyw8PjKVpE= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctrJjo21Zt9oV2CR7cQTm8zMrh9nTX3+Xo8RNf9MsoTYgIVS6Q+V4h1PfY/y6V ZMtrBuDf940qu0gBN1/ByP8ND7sDsmZmZCp2S5gIQ1f4nYd7pqhJze/XxgeQ+qHlzXKuYGsSJdo uoDmXTSCeqRomjlRzpF8HlN3VGeF8RDISNfV7CKPQrOhJqVvZaGrV/Uz64jRiaFQMY9o2c08smI JIDEpfEevIdundR6yH0gZFZI3U7zsYZZo+ZvA+J33Ex3MFIiXSLlFn7VCh2T+WOEbUntxQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE13Bjj6hrZeB/+eavzWtDUQhHXMXKOj7TQWhLb/VWVHu/i8OrfSkiXbePcTWcnc0d1RqM30uN3olSvIIf+dGA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:690e:4346:b0:63f:c61a:5075 with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-640c43718f9mr2745845d50.52.1762537956719; Fri, 07 Nov 2025 09:52:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9390D9DA-3C77-429F-A41D-E0FECD52FF06@connectivitycap.com> <2036296F-1567-4B66-BD8C-3AB49EBD5AA3@connectivitycap.com> In-Reply-To: <2036296F-1567-4B66-BD8C-3AB49EBD5AA3@connectivitycap.com> From: J Pan Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2025 09:52:25 -0800 X-Gm-Features: AWmQ_blDI_oBV-Wlqvihh8Wq4w6NVeajpWPFjnjuJXwlGyHe5Q31VOY89eNNy6I Message-ID: To: Jim Forster Cc: Frantisek Borsik , Cake List , bloat , codel@lists.bufferbloat.net, libreqos , l4s-discuss@ietf.org, starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: F7LZPRFP2ZQXFUZKSW6DWZGAYVQXWDBY X-Message-ID-Hash: F7LZPRFP2ZQXFUZKSW6DWZGAYVQXWDBY X-MailFrom: panatuvicdotca@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; loop; banned-address; emergency; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.10 Precedence: list Subject: [LibreQoS] Re: [Starlink] Re: Re: Keynote: QoE/QoS - Bandwidth Is A Lie! at WISPAPALOOZA 2025 (October 16) List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: latency is based on round-trip time, and one-way delay includes transmission delay, propagation delay, queuing delay and processing delay. bandwidth does affect transmission delay (or serialization delay), propagation delay is determined by the link length and the "travel" speed of the signal, queuing delay is the hardest part and affected by the buffer bloat a lot, and processing delay is another variable. of course, transmission delay takes less and less portion of the end-to-end delay now due to higher and higher "speed" links consumers may mistaken the speed of the link (the "width" of their pipe) as how fast their internet is (the "length" of the pipe), due to the poor terminology we have been using ;-) -- J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pa= n On Fri, Nov 7, 2025 at 8:19=E2=80=AFAM Jim Forster via Starlink wrote: > > Frank =E2=80=94 I=E2=80=99m watching it now, Great job pulling this group= together, and nice, balanced opening statement. > > =E2=80=94 Jim > > > On Nov 7, 2025, at 5:53=E2=80=AFAM, Frantisek Borsik via Starlink wrote: > > > > > > Recording of our QoE/QoS panel discussion is out! It was really great a= nd > > believe you will like it: > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DT1VET0VYQ6c > > > > We have touch bandwidth, L4S, Starlink and more. > > > > Here are the slides with additional reading: > > https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ML0I3Av3DCtQDiP8Djr_YGH2r4-UDZP= 25VEk-xyJcZE/edit?slide=3Did.p#slide=3Did.p > > > > We hope to continue this conversation into more practical, demo-like > > environment of sort, that we can see at IETF Hackathon and used to see = in > > the early WISPA event days, with Animal Farm. > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list -- starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > To unsubscribe send an email to starlink-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net