From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-f182.google.com (mail-yw1-f182.google.com [209.85.128.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92C943B29D; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 13:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yw1-f182.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-70f862dbeaeso36034627b3.1; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 10:27:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1750008477; x=1750613277; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=INSXgFvddHZ2AwQag6O6vGsbKssupa8jvOyySj8+ok0=; b=i3Ftq92wP9od9xBJF2y4JR3dXQIMg/dVmvGM02v1etfNSY5W4M2kyAMiQYtp4vLPIK K/iiMf61yM53+gNr93rUc4Zi8TbjwL0xW+S2jxZ3m8nsqwCheuhe8B+LtGguLC9gy0C4 Crlvtu8TR6Iz4UONCAJPSIKqsXERzwBlmt5X4me2M+BKkZYdCzRAe5KXQjS6hHRepB7n Qdiq/22ryuIyJSrJkVo6lC+Js1AZbnA+EBWGgBK8gRWSdkCJfRnAcoiYvYbbE2m/IAtg mVX8/IKKtVu2Ai05J8ELRB3mL23jmJfJZcffgQnhKM2IxUC4svMxqqqWcDgHEE4JN+91 uBZA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUDO6UYrLXkIDF00f3WMADl38Xs21CxiId5whOEMokNe3gx+eus6pwa9i1FojbZWtb6gyDM9ou+7a2O@lists.bufferbloat.net, AJvYcCUE+krs35Yb62qeJ/JVMcR1/X1TT6nn0+rJF5KUADvAVKTovYzg7lT1sROdSYqKofSufxuN0J0=@lists.bufferbloat.net, AJvYcCUnxATIxMlv1EgUeQTuOHu/uHPPfqbUq0u4qdkV9PuedQ09PtfAR+L/6ZJiGGhjMA2DXyOqb2jED3w=@lists.bufferbloat.net, AJvYcCUrFbpRKmKKFq06xxBJOM0loYpRvXGabHa/H3YU0h1bpG/+FHsVZGYXRwCK9ejMtQmhi6bghQ==@lists.bufferbloat.net, AJvYcCV6ZtJRpr3SqIRTi0sXd3/5DC0MQot8u4ncy9gBGMwnCGDTo9u0Buk/1rZ3c9+pTH5bHTo1DdmwoOM=@lists.bufferbloat.net, AJvYcCWCuvXJIB6jXy1Svjy1Muvu7RhCDjBcgGxmKz5W6aKd/v7NkqGU3FFpxHAAMwVFcOyRdC/i@lists.bufferbloat.net, AJvYcCWt9EHTbKLo/m4ror6CCrA2tLUqcxp0/r50Yt4mr8BY1o14i37Z89rqH+/N4JLSFF53h+n+CqY=@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YykOfG8mBdIHXTKsXHJBI9LVZNlFlo8LJcPzAxny+5WaMZ3ubY6 02RpKIn+Sp9MZjkB68ssU/QXxG0uSIJHY9DgbXp3HgTzepg0hln8uXfyq5595uX22OcfWY+u1q1 FjK7xbjAM+Lo21TESvsSaOvCKetYhZi1Rzw== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvCbFxolR2FTLXgsleDqObSTBVqJQYgB5D7FaYbkwk/BQCFaw5NjIfjWRTVUNC NGL16SStUVdrqeuGV500F2g9MHqQeGDq6uYS0sactrUWusqo1Zgry/SRGAXRJojMpLJb4nkZ3Qr 4PqrmHG3akr97pu75brXffNAKrSadZO/yxGkwctkvAnZA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFABvFI4da/QHB6aD6ekxyHYjbm0kxdHfG7Yu2EvMvDhvQoQgeWZOJu57d0jZMM/A+hzARdEfBKklhRjd+VMHM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:64c2:b0:700:b007:a33e with SMTP id 00721157ae682-7117539dc9cmr98396067b3.16.1750008476914; Sun, 15 Jun 2025 10:27:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: J Pan Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 10:27:45 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AX0GCFtWnN-zbZ88udBP11KExCKpfRm6nfEl1gxh5gGbrQexSkwiUEh0NkTHTvQ Message-ID: To: the keyboard of geoff goodfellow Cc: Frantisek Borsik , Jeremy Austin via Rpm , Herbert Wolverson , libreqos , Dave Taht via Starlink , codel@lists.bufferbloat.net, bloat , Cake List , bloat-ietf@lists.bufferbloat.net, =?UTF-8?Q?Robert_Chac=C3=B3n?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 14:06:45 -0400 Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] [Starlink] Announcing the LibreQoS Bufferbloat Test Platform X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2025 17:27:57 -0000 depending on where the test server is? better if isp/cdn providers can host such tests too -- J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pa= n On Sun, Jun 15, 2025 at 9:21=E2=80=AFAM the keyboard of geoff goodfellow vi= a Starlink wrote: > > re: thoughts and feedback! > > your https://test.libreqos.com tests of [Single User Test] & [Virtual Hou= sehold Mode] both give yours truly bufferbloat grades of A+ > > whereas the https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat test gives yours t= ruly a bufferbloat brade grade of C > > https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat?test-id=3Db13810f2-e999-4045-8= e8b-ab3ab8b957c5 > > #1.) Why/What's the difference? > > #2.) Who/Which one to believe=C2=BF > > g > > > On Sun, Jun 15, 2025 at 4:58=E2=80=AFAM Frantisek Borsik via Starlink wrote: >> >> Hello to all, >> >> We're excited to announce the release of the LibreQoS Bufferbloat Test = =E2=80=93 an open-source bufferbloat testing solution designed specifically= for ISPs and network operators to deploy for their customers. >> >> Link >> https://test.libreqos.com >> >> What Makes This Different >> >> While there are several bufferbloat testing tools available, this platfo= rm addresses a critical gap: ISP-deployable infrastructure that provides bo= th traditional testing and realistic household simulation. >> >> As Dave T=C3=A4ht highlighted in his influential article "What's Wrong w= ith Speed Tests", traditional speed tests fail to measure what users actual= ly experience. We tried to address Dave's points to make a better speed tes= t that focuses on the metric that matters: latency under load in realistic = usage scenarios. >> >> Two Complementary Test Modes >> >> Single User Test Mode >> >> Traditional sequential load testing (baseline =E2=86=92 download =E2=86= =92 upload =E2=86=92 bidirectional) >> Measures working latency and jitter during each phase >> Familiar A+ to F grading based on latency under load increases >> Comparable to existing tools like DSLReports Speed Test and Waveform Buf= ferbloat Test >> >> >> Virtual Household Mode (The Innovation) >> >> Process-isolated simulation of 4 concurrent users with authentic traffic= patterns: >> >> Alex (Gaming): 1.5 Mbps constant, jitter-sensitive for competitive gamin= g >> Sarah (Video Conference): 2.5 Mbps bidirectional, Teams simulation with = working latency monitoring >> Jake (Netflix HD): 25 Mbps bursts (1s on, 4s off), realistic streaming p= atterns >> Computer (Background): Up to 200 Mbps continuous download, system update= s >> >> >> Real-world relevance: Tests latency under load when multiple family memb= ers are online simultaneously >> >> Advanced grading: Network fairness, jitter measurement, and per-user wor= king latency analysis >> >> Why (not only) ISPs Need This >> >> The traditional approach of sending customers to third-party speed test = sites has limitations: >> >> No control over test methodology or server placement >> Limited correlation with customer support tickets >> Generic results that don't reflect real-world usage patterns >> No integration with ISP operational systems >> >> This platform enables (not only) ISPs to: >> >> Host their own testing infrastructure with full control >> Integrate with support systems via telemetry APIs >> Provide customers with realistic household testing scenarios >> Correlate test results with network performance and customer complaints >> >> >> Open Source & Community >> >> The entire platform is open source and available here: https://github.co= m/LibreQoE/bufferbloat_test >> >> We've designed this to be: >> >> Easy to deploy for (not only) ISPs of any size >> Scientifically meaningful in its measurement methodology >> Realistic in its simulation of actual household usage >> Integrable with existing ISP operational workflows >> >> >> Community Feedback Requested >> >> We'd love feedback from the bufferbloat.net community on: >> >> Test methodology: Are we measuring the right metrics? >> Grading thresholds: Do our A+ to F grades align with real-world impact? >> Virtual household scenarios: What other realistic usage patterns should = we simulate? >> ISP adoption: What barriers exist for ISP deployment? >> >> >> Technical Discussion >> >> We'd welcome discussion about: >> >> Measurement accuracy for working latency and jitter in virtual household= mode >> Traffic pattern authenticity (gaming, video conferencing, streaming) >> Grading methodology for latency under load in complex multi-user scenari= os >> Integration approaches for ISP operational systems >> >> >> The platform represents our attempt to bridge the gap between academic b= ufferbloat research and practical ISP operations, building on the foundatio= nal work of researchers like Dave T=C3=A4ht and the broader bufferbloat com= munity. We believe that widespread ISP deployment of proper bufferbloat tes= ting infrastructure will ultimately benefit the entire internet ecosystem. >> >> Looking forward to the community's thoughts and feedback! >> >> Best regards, >> >> The LibreQoS Team >> >> >> In loving memory of Dave T=C3=A4ht: 1965-2025 >> >> https://libreqos.io/2025/04/01/in-loving-memory-of-dave/ >> >> >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik >> >> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 >> >> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 >> >> Skype: casioa5302ca >> >> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > -- > Geoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com > living as The Truth is True > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink