From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt1-x82b.google.com (mail-qt1-x82b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A4513B29E for ; Mon, 1 May 2023 14:21:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82b.google.com with SMTP id d75a77b69052e-3ee339e8c2fso12538511cf.0 for ; Mon, 01 May 2023 11:21:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1682965311; x=1685557311; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VPMj4p6cLeLqig/SIBZQ3fW3TjMORVrUUU/mmfYyM7U=; b=TRz0N1bQoltUUNket79CB4V0doTURyjh3ugfuBygx2INuoGUBiIIIzpI9Oen6s+jwa X+ITVoD/K7Ravm/+i4JwriBzH1EAHPaNi0TRHLDkHLd43OPiixh8GG81uzrP3jSBwQhU bZejc/ZORZne5CtFVeX9A1wtPbigq7VqR8gqXwVEUnYA7GGwGXEioiM8h09p61b1JEvh PpxBbxjtgb2C88/WZLhkilBeGzuP9Yr5JyOIU1r7iabQ+7oFDJpgb3i3HT8hlauJK6Ov ZQtu7dKraHRbfLXCVMM5sS8anh9K9bsQSmk1bDyhY3Aj6ecOQvBBvpwJ90RGIIxBSTVB XUgQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1682965311; x=1685557311; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=VPMj4p6cLeLqig/SIBZQ3fW3TjMORVrUUU/mmfYyM7U=; b=KHlllXKIlJY0Nyn6+sdc2+HNxzvaDm0OtJb1nefP6WXtrrgizsoykbXMgzdu6WvY3M T8tl5wS+7hb74BuG1aqlP5J9KBB89vSLZDZAVfSl40JZ3vlodkjkZiNaRzzVBLoYK5w7 dwnXoqVx7DzxJJBWXlRSYO4ZjJOFOzGULP7q9Roc2nVSVwEWe581ta5d5mhpWhK5yjmQ Z8O/SWUTcb3iMbdwvVtHUMmRHL1J3Mg0WA/Jxncb+FMNPZKYSTlk6v5mwbizVIb6DvJt 59MErOj/b4XSf8LLVnrPX4Ns/Mx40BBOSy3ki3qB8IvRfOn+3j32ZT/qDl0i5iUTq/+r fSzA== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDxb4Y154g6gdO1Qs1OiPulnDUGSZPoLku1VfEXUCqIeW6h6d91K 4y//6m/TXTa1ckFx/1CogYX2aqBioeOKsqNJGBU/OGWu X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ4EI2FFeIywZvrSy6qUt6yyPkG18tSmvTwaWUehpfRu7KfLdBIhSUlTTVwvNbd+LrL77NzNRvUvgHD6PQBTAmw= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5a46:0:b0:3ef:380a:d797 with SMTP id o6-20020ac85a46000000b003ef380ad797mr21912286qta.61.1682965310575; Mon, 01 May 2023 11:21:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Frantisek Borsik Date: Mon, 1 May 2023 20:30:50 +0200 Message-ID: To: dan Cc: Dave Taht , libreqos Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="00000000000081db4905faa5e56c" Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] Fwd: Broadband Accountability Brief X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 May 2023 18:21:51 -0000 --00000000000081db4905faa5e56c Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000081db4805faa5e56b" --00000000000081db4805faa5e56b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes. No way out of this, basically. Anyway, I still love what Robert is doing: https://jackrabbitwireless.com/performance/ He has upgraded Performance explanation on the website and it=E2=80=99s eve= n more on the point. My hope is to see more and more small (W)ISPs competing with the big (and in many instances, crony) ISPs with this approach. Thanks to LibreQoS. On Mon, 1 May 2023 at 12:48 PM, dan wrote: > For one, the testing data needs to include more increments. This is > capitalism (in theory) so if you want a measure of consumer choice you > need.... choices. showing a DSL or an aging wisp or other <=3D10Mbps ser= vice > and having a 200-300Mbps docsis offering overbuilt via gov' funds at twic= e > the price is really not choice. > > I hate to say this because I'm typing this on my shiny macbook pro 16 > m2.... but this is the apple model. Simply don't make products in the > bottom or even medium end of the market and then you dont have to worry > about those products cannibalising the higher end products. Why doesn't > spectrum/comcast/etc offer a 100x25 service? because it would be 10-15 > less than their 200-300 and some not unsubstantial percent of users would > choose that because of the price and be very happy with it. And frankly, > they WOULD be very happy with it. > > These programs that are about whomever can deliver gigabit first getting > the government supported monopoly are the opposite of every merit based > selection mechanism in capitalism. > > There seems to be a presumption that if you can just get 'fiber' to the > home that the internet will be great, but that's just not reflected in th= e > ratings and reviews of providers across the gambut. You'll see wisps > offering quite low speeds with very high ratings and fttx providers with > gig service getting really poor reviews. If one of these low reviewed > companies is first to market with that gig (and they are... a lot...their > business model is to use government funds to build out...) then the > consumer didn't get a choice, there is no competition to give consumers a > choice. > > This is basically a giant nanny-state model. The government 'knows > better' than the consumer and will pick the technology and the company to > deliver it. > > On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 3:51=E2=80=AFAM Frantisek Borsik < > frantisek.borsik@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Indeed. I highly doubt that there's any hope in this regard. >> >> Anyway, Dan, can You think of any possible incremental improvements that >> You can come up with, as a layman? >> >> >> All the best, >> >> Frank >> >> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik >> >> >> >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik >> >> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 >> >> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 >> >> Skype: casioa5302ca >> >> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com >> >> >> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 11:47=E2=80=AFAM dan wrote: >> >>> I had a long response typed out here but I decided to simplify. This >>> brief does what a lot do. 'trust us, our tests compensate for wifi'. o= h >>> yeah? how so? much of the same bad information gathering and false >>> conclusions follow. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 3:16=E2=80=AFAM Frantisek Borsik via LibreQoS < >>> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> >>>> And so, how to get from ISP claim to ISP proof? Upscaling anything lik= e >>>> this SamKnows' thing with US government from the past? >>>> https://samknows.com/blog/mba-retrospective >>>> >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> >>>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik >>>> >>>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 >>>> >>>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 >>>> >>>> Skype: casioa5302ca >>>> >>>> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 12:02=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via LibreQoS < >>>> libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>> From: Thomas Reid >>>>> Date: Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 11:03=E2=80=AFAM >>>>> Subject: Broadband Accountability Brief >>>>> To: National Broadband Mapping Coalition < >>>>> bbcoalition@marconisociety.org> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello All, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thought at least some of you may appreciate the attached brief on >>>>> achieving accountability in broadband. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Take care, >>>>> >>>>> Tom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Tom Reid* >>>>> >>>>> Reid Consulting Group LLC >>>>> >>>>> 740-590-0076 >>>>> >>>>> Tom@ReidConsultingGroup.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "National Broadband Mapping Coalition" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, sen= d >>>>> an email to BBCoalition+unsubscribe@marconisociety.org. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/marconisociety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/PH= 8PR11MB6879B0D32296F3BDA42A9425BA6B9%40PH8PR11MB6879.namprd11.prod.outlook.= com >>>>> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AMA March 31: >>>>> https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht >>>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> LibreQoS mailing list >>>>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> LibreQoS mailing list >>>> LibreQoS@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos >>>> >>> -- All the best, Frank Frantisek (Frank) Borsik https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 Skype: casioa5302ca frantisek.borsik@gmail.com --00000000000081db4805faa5e56b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes. No way out of this, basically.

Anyway, I still love what Robert is doing:=C2= =A0

He has upgraded Performance explanation on the website and it= =E2=80=99s even more on the point.

My hope is to see more and more small (W)ISPs competing with the= big (and in many instances, crony) ISPs with this approach. Thanks to Libr= eQoS.



On = Mon, 1 May 2023 at 12:48 PM, dan <dandenson@gmail.com> wrote:
For one, the testing data needs to include more increments.=C2=A0 This = is capitalism (in theory) so if you want a measure of consumer choice you n= eed.... choices.=C2=A0 showing a DSL or an aging wisp or other <=3D10Mbp= s service and having a 200-300Mbps docsis offering overbuilt via gov' f= unds at twice the price is really not choice.=C2=A0

I hate to say th= is because I'm typing this on my shiny=C2=A0macbook pro 16 m2.... but t= his is the apple model.=C2=A0 Simply don't make products in the bottom = or even medium end of the market and then you dont have to worry about thos= e products cannibalising=C2=A0the higher end products.=C2=A0 Why doesn'= t spectrum/comcast/etc offer a 100x25 service?=C2=A0 because it would be 10= -15 less than their 200-300 and some not unsubstantial percent of users wou= ld choose that because of the price and be very happy with it.=C2=A0 And fr= ankly, they WOULD be very happy with it.

These programs that are abo= ut whomever can deliver gigabit first getting the government supported mono= poly are the opposite of every merit based selection mechanism in capitalis= m.

There seems to be a presumption that if you can just = get 'fiber' to the home that the internet will be great, but that&#= 39;s just not reflected in the ratings and reviews of providers across the = gambut.=C2=A0 You'll see wisps offering quite low speeds with very high= ratings and fttx providers with gig service getting really poor reviews.= =C2=A0 If one of these low reviewed companies is first to market with that = gig (and they are... a lot...their business model is to use government fund= s to build out...) then the consumer didn't get a choice, there is no c= ompetition to give consumers a choice.

This is basically a giant nan= ny-state model.=C2=A0 The government 'knows better' than the consum= er and will pick the technology and the company to deliver it.
<= br>
On Mon,= May 1, 2023 at 3:51=E2=80=AFAM Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
Indeed. I highly doubt = that there's any hope in this regard.

Anyway, Dan, c= an You think of any possible incremental improvements that You can come up = with, as a layman?


All the best,

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

=C2=A0

https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik

Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +4= 21919416714=C2=A0

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885

Skype: casioa5302ca

= frantisek.borsik@gmail.com



On Mon, May 1, 2023 at 11:47= =E2=80=AFAM dan <dandenson@gmail.com> wrote:
I had a long response typed out here but I decided to simplify.=C2=A0 = This brief does what a lot do. 'trust us, our tests compensate for wifi= '.=C2=A0 oh yeah?=C2=A0 how so?=C2=A0 much of the same bad information = gathering and false conclusions follow.=C2=A0


On Mon, May 1, = 2023 at 3:16=E2=80=AFAM Frantisek Borsik via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferblo= at.net> wrote:
And so, ho= w to get from ISP claim to ISP proof? Upscaling anything like this SamKnows= ' thing with US government from the past?
https://samknows.com/blog/= mba-retrospective


All the best,

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

=C2=A0

https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik

Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +4= 21919416714=C2=A0

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885

Skype: casioa5302ca

= frantisek.borsik@gmail.com



On Sat, Apr 29, 2023= at 12:02=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via LibreQoS <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net= > wrote:


---------- Forwarded= message ---------
From: Thomas Reid <Tom@reidconsultinggroup.com>
Date: Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 11:03=E2=80=AFAM
Subject: Broadband Acc= ountability Brief
To: National Broadband Mapping Coalition <bbcoalition@ma= rconisociety.org>


Hello All,

=C2=A0

Thought at least some of you may appreciate the atta= ched brief on achieving accountability in broadband.

=C2=A0

Take care,

Tom

=C2=A0

Tom Reid

Reid Consulting Group LLC=

740-590-0076

Tom@ReidConsultingGroup.com

=

=C2=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;National Broadband Mapping Coalition" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to BBCoalition+unsubscribe@marconisociety.org.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/marconisoc= iety.org/d/msgid/BBCoalition/PH8PR11MB6879B0D32296F3BDA42A9425BA6B9%40PH8PR= 11MB6879.namprd11.prod.outlook.com.


--
Dave T=C3= =A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
LibreQo= S@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
_______________________________________________
LibreQoS mailing list
LibreQo= S@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/libreqos
-- <= br>
All the best,

Frank
Frantisek (Frank) Borsik

https://www.linkedin.com/i= n/frantisekborsik
Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp:=C2=A0+421919416714=C2= =A0
iMessage, mobile:=C2=A0+420775230885
Skype: casioa5302ca
frantisek.borsik@gmail.com
=
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