* [LibreQoS] Fwd: Quantifying the quality attenuation of WiFi [not found] <CAKf5G6Lr2VHZP9ZWxYZ83zfZzyBHA-XS8MQ+xb=jc9GiYQA+wQ@mail.gmail.com> @ 2022-11-28 18:00 ` Dave Taht 2022-11-28 18:59 ` [LibreQoS] " Bjørn Ivar Teigen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 3+ messages in thread From: Dave Taht @ 2022-11-28 18:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: libreqos, Bjørn Ivar Teigen [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2020 bytes --] All: Intro to bjorn, head of research for domos.no in the eu. Attached is a recent paper of his looking over how wifi works using their analytical methods. For the record, the math behind ∆Q makes my head hurt. It has always made my head hurt. I understand packet loss, FQing and delay, and have been seeking a good analytical method, in paritcular, for videconferencing quality, for quite a while. I was happy to see all the netflix metrics go by the other day... Also bjorn had sent me a really big document about some broadband forum work his group is doing, and I don't remember if that was public or private, he'd asked me to review it at least, and I spaced on it halfway through, and perhaps it is published now and he can point us in the right direction. (sorry bjorn! Terrrrrribly busy here of late) Domos is positioning itself as a "latency manager" - seemingly primarily in the eu 5G and Docsis markets, with APIs to "control stuff" at the kind of layer libreqos works at. We here are mostly positioned in the WISP and fiber markets, as well as perhaps other forms of managed networks... tho it would be nice if 5G in particular was paying more attention! ... and we all are trying to work together to reduce latency on the internet, and perhaps there will be synergy someday here. Anyway, an intro to domos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO-8Q1N9TKU ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Bjørn Ivar Teigen <bjorn@domos.no> Date: Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:06 AM Subject: Quantifying the quality attenuation of WiFi To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> Hi Dave, I saw your tweets about the p99 conference. This paper of mine about latency distributions on WiFi was just published at the LCN 2022 and I thought you might enjoy it! Cheers, Bjørn -- This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC [-- Attachment #2: Quantifying_the_Quality_Attenuation_of_WiFi-1.pdf --] [-- Type: application/pdf, Size: 561711 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
* Re: [LibreQoS] Quantifying the quality attenuation of WiFi 2022-11-28 18:00 ` [LibreQoS] Fwd: Quantifying the quality attenuation of WiFi Dave Taht @ 2022-11-28 18:59 ` Bjørn Ivar Teigen 2022-12-01 16:38 ` Bjørn Ivar Teigen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 3+ messages in thread From: Bjørn Ivar Teigen @ 2022-11-28 18:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Taht; +Cc: libreqos [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3204 bytes --] Hi everyone, and thank you very much for the introduction Dave! I've been low-key following the Libreqos stuff for a while now, and I'm very impressed by what you are doing. At Domos we're focusing on convincing ISPs (EU and US mostly) that consistent low-latency is the metric they should be focusing on (and that latency performance is, in fact, generally very bad). That starts with measurements, and our solution is based around doing latency measurements from home gateways. The document Dave is referring to is public here: https://www.broadband-forum.org/download/TR-452.1.pdf <https://www.broadband-forum.org/download/TR-452.1.pdf> It describes a standard way of measuring latency+loss (Which is what quality attenuation is; A combination of latency and loss in a single concept). I've signed up for this mailing list now so please shout if you need me :) Cheers, On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 at 19:00, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote: > All: > > Intro to bjorn, head of research for domos.no in the eu. Attached is a > recent paper of his looking over how wifi works using their analytical > methods. > > For the record, the math behind ∆Q makes my head hurt. It has always > made my head hurt. I understand packet loss, FQing and delay, and have > been seeking a good analytical method, in paritcular, for > videconferencing quality, for quite a while. I was happy to see all > the netflix metrics go by the other day... > > Also bjorn had sent me a really big document about some broadband > forum work his group is doing, and I don't remember if that was public > or private, he'd asked me to review it > at least, and I spaced on it halfway through, and perhaps it is > published now and he can point us in the right direction. (sorry > bjorn! Terrrrrribly busy here of late) > > Domos is positioning itself as a "latency manager" - seemingly > primarily in the eu 5G and Docsis markets, with APIs to "control > stuff" at the kind of layer libreqos works at. We here > are mostly positioned in the WISP and fiber markets, as well as > perhaps other forms of managed networks... tho it would be nice if 5G > in particular was paying more attention! > > ... and we all are trying to work together to reduce latency on the > internet, and perhaps there will be synergy someday here. > > Anyway, an intro to domos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO-8Q1N9TKU > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Bjørn Ivar Teigen <bjorn@domos.no> > Date: Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:06 AM > Subject: Quantifying the quality attenuation of WiFi > To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> > > > Hi Dave, > > I saw your tweets about the p99 conference. This paper of mine about > latency distributions on WiFi was just published at the LCN 2022 and I > thought you might enjoy it! > > Cheers, > Bjørn > > > -- > This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: > > https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz > Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > -- Bjørn Ivar Teigen Head of Research +47 47335952 | bjorn@domos.no <name@domos.no> | www.domos.no [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 5724 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
* Re: [LibreQoS] Quantifying the quality attenuation of WiFi 2022-11-28 18:59 ` [LibreQoS] " Bjørn Ivar Teigen @ 2022-12-01 16:38 ` Bjørn Ivar Teigen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 3+ messages in thread From: Bjørn Ivar Teigen @ 2022-12-01 16:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Taht; +Cc: libreqos [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3715 bytes --] Speaking of Quality Attenuation (∆Q), I just published this introduction to the topic: https://www.domos.no/blog/g89z4cra52qpet85ajfihwx0ykd7m2 It's meant as a high-level intro, so no heavy math. Cheers, On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 at 19:59, Bjørn Ivar Teigen <bjorn@domos.no> wrote: > Hi everyone, and thank you very much for the introduction Dave! > > > I've been low-key following the Libreqos stuff for a while now, and I'm > very impressed by what you are doing. > > At Domos we're focusing on convincing ISPs (EU and US mostly) that > consistent low-latency is the metric they should be focusing on (and that > latency performance is, in fact, generally very bad). That starts with > measurements, and our solution is based around doing > latency measurements from home gateways. > > The document Dave is referring to is public here: > https://www.broadband-forum.org/download/TR-452.1.pdf > <https://www.broadband-forum.org/download/TR-452.1.pdf> > It describes a standard way of measuring latency+loss (Which is what > quality attenuation is; A combination of latency and loss in a single > concept). > > I've signed up for this mailing list now so please shout if you need me :) > > > Cheers, > > > On Mon, 28 Nov 2022 at 19:00, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote: > >> All: >> >> Intro to bjorn, head of research for domos.no in the eu. Attached is a >> recent paper of his looking over how wifi works using their analytical >> methods. >> >> For the record, the math behind ∆Q makes my head hurt. It has always >> made my head hurt. I understand packet loss, FQing and delay, and have >> been seeking a good analytical method, in paritcular, for >> videconferencing quality, for quite a while. I was happy to see all >> the netflix metrics go by the other day... >> >> Also bjorn had sent me a really big document about some broadband >> forum work his group is doing, and I don't remember if that was public >> or private, he'd asked me to review it >> at least, and I spaced on it halfway through, and perhaps it is >> published now and he can point us in the right direction. (sorry >> bjorn! Terrrrrribly busy here of late) >> >> Domos is positioning itself as a "latency manager" - seemingly >> primarily in the eu 5G and Docsis markets, with APIs to "control >> stuff" at the kind of layer libreqos works at. We here >> are mostly positioned in the WISP and fiber markets, as well as >> perhaps other forms of managed networks... tho it would be nice if 5G >> in particular was paying more attention! >> >> ... and we all are trying to work together to reduce latency on the >> internet, and perhaps there will be synergy someday here. >> >> Anyway, an intro to domos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO-8Q1N9TKU >> >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >> From: Bjørn Ivar Teigen <bjorn@domos.no> >> Date: Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:06 AM >> Subject: Quantifying the quality attenuation of WiFi >> To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> >> >> >> Hi Dave, >> >> I saw your tweets about the p99 conference. This paper of mine about >> latency distributions on WiFi was just published at the LCN 2022 and I >> thought you might enjoy it! >> >> Cheers, >> Bjørn >> >> >> -- >> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: >> >> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz >> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> > > > -- > Bjørn Ivar Teigen > Head of Research > +47 47335952 | bjorn@domos.no <name@domos.no> | www.domos.no > -- Bjørn Ivar Teigen Head of Research +47 47335952 | bjorn@domos.no <name@domos.no> | www.domos.no [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 8017 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 3+ messages in thread
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[not found] <CAKf5G6Lr2VHZP9ZWxYZ83zfZzyBHA-XS8MQ+xb=jc9GiYQA+wQ@mail.gmail.com>
2022-11-28 18:00 ` [LibreQoS] Fwd: Quantifying the quality attenuation of WiFi Dave Taht
2022-11-28 18:59 ` [LibreQoS] " Bjørn Ivar Teigen
2022-12-01 16:38 ` Bjørn Ivar Teigen
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