From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 659703B29E; Wed, 8 Feb 2023 12:07:21 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1675876039; bh=mZIc7I0PjG7wUhNrn7W+dseJAzlNhatLWKj7bPxSbAc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=k05ePYXrA5M9Tn4U85TTedLjZiEWmhpRjUO3YsnZ9iShEh9ceRACGn2i/woL+KOvH aYvfmdQGd3kswtmCa8PCdKJ+OBlivCev8xXeV1ibEbtLQghhMsI2+uyIC1Rr3OdEvd TOoTRN2sNUY3g5YXg+IqA2f0Jd/rwV6MsmyMoPoGy02G2Abi+BkSClHmYyCo5xoqlW +qfWPAXnYDpLLQQo8QIr1Za6bLlemsw9cgDG1FSoiFypR6ow/8iKkoJAt5AR/d9NPz guEQwQt+6W1Y2nGDgWJkqlhJcycr9f86rbE4Vm6WGJdzwGm+babaj/+PvMjCiGkuCi GlDwQB79n123A== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([80.187.109.134]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MStCe-1p27hZ2H9C-00UGBh; Wed, 08 Feb 2023 18:07:19 +0100 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2023 18:07:17 +0100 From: Sebastian Moeller To: Dave Taht , Dave Taht via Bloat , libreqos , bloat User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <49312101.15152.0@wordpress.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:OCBZuuAS/ZhXMjEj0S1h0nE4OiOx+q9MNEii0qMQyEqcm+RCccp TiLNHDycjGA/J3LS+ZTDbY4UJoLT3wSTgxzR3yOr0UAna/CcH5j1uvP5UQj1nwIcfkdKMqD tK5yVj2+kY+S3i83Twy+rNWuhVNnQbw/6g/OYiD6qpwoens1waCH3nLgU9eYLsVBvB9a2Yv v4kWZNSqvTpBZIHDk5K6A== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:TgVqv/MKW70=;BmooBDMCVKfxrJ9FWfz0dAEX11+ HoaDpdWxXUftUM/4LkvcP+1CLH+M3Vk1Rd+bagrigRPfdd3E7IK3XhBFOIIoQLzka+hA/EnpZ MIXm7UPvZ/Be1vPl4nr5M5h4K58qepFfCLSoIrEmjwim0lDthqDMdJRM2b53cqleVJSwtuvM3 Zcdu/Aw8dVbSEqG8tySNoU8enyPQWUaj31qXb9Arj+Zk+eCEMlTT3yogzzgMivKq/Ly/DA8cE I6RBuYt5F1tnqfKcwBKxg5Hq5LV4dfpp1KjhmM2v5JRMlvHbYTbjcNag/X5Xi6U2+LEEHKuGv WP+rqvfp5D72tRfSstDhUs6Dgn1H2dgVvwctdaBWyamJOpyGrXke5+uB/TqNIaVpeXFBh2BLp NfROc08IKlqyXBfTk5zif+bUZUsd8HYTZRmnadKDuplRjlTHPe7MGqP+b6itPxpgzLSF3uLYe WFyFPxAqJ6jUwUTSmuTAFbgSoV0pJqaIA4gwlmPleqXs+d8B5xrNk382ghPjvH4IyHbpxrKzC L+TyzVF8EutJMLqkRX9FcxT691E602ZX+HxLXBcOfdRl2sVtTygfOkVxheSK7grG+BAd+PNxQ jUJtQ/JGys1p/gSNwpV9oeifX2Vkdb/hJBftJmlMVPxJlWgEOcoLpFnH1tSoVmueHP3w6vspB DV85/msCdTUa/Sp0PR5PQnVTDXIvjGJN7GcQ78JoeIgIowp1vauabCkJr8dc4olnhq8eBCfv9 9m8aNgs36MDBlYOm5VXZGofZlvq9KAkQFEJ+f1EGuFqOl5+um/Q7XnKmFT/FpUGSWsIv4uw4I DkZscft/uAmY5rwBZzMkXDZL33x/44944Ci2nuaytXO4qjhnLr5OQVVMGOe4gUojju5aC8tey 1qmACM8BlFf8ZGThjawSa74+V/ArhQPveRPf92kIxN3b7JTgQTehdeNvioNHikU/G2RFidVOO oee/2NvY8GLHtUblwM1KknkEO/c= Subject: Re: [LibreQoS] [Bloat] Fwd: [New post] How Good is FWA Wireless? X-BeenThere: libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Many ISPs need the kinds of quality shaping cake can do List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2023 17:07:21 -0000 Hi, On 8 February 2023 17:13:26 CET, Dave Taht via Bloat wrote: >I do find it odd that the carriers deprioritized home users=20 I would not be amazed if the priority would inversely correlate with expec= ted profit for mobile vs fwa customers and maybe with the availability of c= ompetitive broadband access products=2E=2E=2E=2E (and of course, >insane, that they have such lousy queue management still) That is IMHO bigger issue, even with lower priority competent AQM would re= sult in pretty usable FWA links even if the advertised rates are not reache= d, but I am preaching to the choire here ;) > >---------- Forwarded message --------- >From: POTs and PANs >Date: Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 4:35 AM >Subject: [New post] How Good is FWA Wireless? >To: > > >[image: Site logo image] Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting posted: "T-Mobile go= t >some bad news recently when the the National Advertising Division (NAD) o= f >BBB National Programs informed T-Mobile that it could not use the words >=E2=80=9Cfast=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Creliable=E2=80=9D when advertising fo= r its FWA fixed wireless product >that it brands as T-M" POTs and PANs How >Good is FWA Wireless? > > >Doug Dawson, CCG Consulting > >Feb 8 > >T-Mobile >got some bad news recently when the the National Advertising Division (NA= D) >of BBB National Programs informed T-Mobile that it could not use the word= s >=E2=80=9Cfast=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Creliable=E2=80=9D when advertising fo= r its FWA fixed wireless product >that it brands as T-Mobile Home Internet=2E This ruling came as a result = of a >complaint from Comcast that T-Mobile is overstating the capabilities of t= he >FWA product in advertising=2E > >Most large carriers belong to the BBB National Programs as a lower cost w= ay >of mitigating advertising disputes than lawsuits=2E ISPS agree to go alon= g >with the rulings issued by the group as a condition of joining=2E However= , in >this case, T-Mobile is appealing the decision=2E The news wasn=E2=80=99t = all bad for >T-Mobile since it was ruled that T-Mobile could continue to advertise tha= t >the price of FWA is =E2=80=98locked-in=E2=80=9D since the company hasn=E2= =80=99t raised its rates=2E > >Anybody who has looked closely at the performance of FWA wireless from >T-Mobile or Verizon would agree with this ruling=2E The main reason for t= he >ruling is that the performance of FWA can vary widely=2E It=E2=80=99s a b= roadband >product that connects to customers from a cell site, and the distance >between a customer and the cell site makes a big difference in the speed >being delivered=2E I talked to one customer located near to a T-Mobile to= wer >who was consistently getting over 200 Mbps download and was really please= d >with the product=2E But in this same community, customers only a mile or = so >away from that same cell tower were getting speeds closer to 50-100 Mbps >and were not as happy with the product=2E A mile further away and speeds = were >not good at all, and I talked to a farmer who sent the receiver back=2E I= n a >rural area, a mile isn't very far, and unless there are a lot of towers, >most folks are not getting the advertised fast speeds=2E > >The one consistent feedback I=E2=80=99ve gotten in talking to FWA custome= rs is that >speeds vary=2E This is true for all cellular broadband, and cell phone >customers are used to seeing a different number of bars of broadband spee= d >over time from the same location such as home or the office=2E Cellular d= ata >speeds vary for a wide variety of reasons like temperature and weather=2E > >But the biggest reason for the variability is the overall volume of data >being demanded from a given cell site at a given moment=2E Like most >broadband products, cellular broadband is a shared data product where the >broadband is divvied up among the users at any given time=2E But unlike >landline broadband networks, a cellular company cannot control the number >of users at a cell site=2E Since cell phones are mobile, there is no tell= ing >how many people might be demanding a cellular data connection at any give= n >time=2E > >FWA has one more limitation in that the cellular carriers have elected to >give first priority to cell phones over FWA customers=2E This means that = when >a cell site gets busy, the carrier will choke the delivered data speeds t= o >FWA customers in order to deliver the most speed possible to cellular >customers=2E This makes sense since each big T-Mobile and Verizon have >roughly 100 million cellular customers compared to a few million FWA >customers=2E They do not want to make cellular customers unhappy with >broadband speeds, and so they throttle FWA when a cell site gets busy=2E > >T-Mobile doesn=E2=80=99t hide this, and the throttling is discussed in th= e fine >print when the product is advertised=2E But that throttling is part of th= e >reason that T-Mobile can=E2=80=99t describe it=E2=80=99s product as relia= ble =E2=80=93 because at >busy times it isn=E2=80=99t=2E > >The big selling point for FWA is the low price and I=E2=80=99m sure the p= rice is >what attracted urban customers=2E The speeds are going to be liked in rur= al >areas where there are no alternatives, but there is definitely a severe >distance limitation - in a rural area a 50 Mbps connection might be a big >leap up in performance=2E But the FWA product is a lot slower than cable >company broadband=2E Households who are heavy broadband users might not l= ike >the slower speeds and the variability=2E This ruling is telling T-Mobile = that >it can=E2=80=99t advertise in a way that makes FWA sound like an equivale= nt >alternative to cable or fiber broadband, because it isn=E2=80=99t=2E It= =E2=80=99s going to be >interesting to see how T-Mobile adjusts it=E2=80=99s advertising after th= is ruling=2E >Comment > >------------------------------ > >Unsubscribe > >to no longer receive posts from POTs and PANs=2E >Change your email settings at manage subscriptions=2E > > >Trouble clicking? Copy and paste this URL into your browser: >https://potsandpansbyccg=2Ecom/2023/02/08/how-good-is-fwa-wireless/ >Powered by WordPress=2Ecom > >[image: Download on the App Store] > >[image: >Get it on Google Play] > > > --=20 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E