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[74.104.184.84]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q5sm2579027qtb.52.2017.05.17.18.15.03 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 17 May 2017 18:15:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Frits Riep" To: "'Rich Brown'" Cc: References: <028001d2cd0f$afb27f40$0f177dc0$@riepnet.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 21:15:01 -0400 Message-ID: <000001d2cf74$2de87250$89b956f0$@riepnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQHN6PUPZX54JuntAnBoKeWRlGkU1AG7EnZnofU7YKA= Content-Language: en-us Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] Make-wifi-fast Digest, Vol 26, Issue 2 - Thanks and question on whether the Make-wifi-fast code is in the Ubiquiti wireless implementation. X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 01:15:06 -0000 Thanks Rich, Based on this, it seems that the commercial implementations so far are = focused on router traffic, but that so far the Make-wifi-fast code is = not yet incorporated in any shipping or known planned commercial = products. Is this a valid interpretation? I've seen the IQrouter messaging and the messages are great and I = believe not too technical for buyers to understand the value. = Hopefully, they will be very successful with reaching their audience and = spur other manufacturers to develop products and compete on the = capabilities and open up larger markets. =20 It would be great if some of the review sites did testing and endorse = these capabilities to get much more market awareness of the issues and = benefits of this technology. Frits -----Original Message----- From: Rich Brown [mailto:richb.hanover@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:20 PM To: Frits Riep Cc: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: Make-wifi-fast Digest, Vol 26, Issue 2 - Thanks and = question on whether the Make-wifi-fast code is in the Ubiquiti wireless = implementation. Frits, The IQrouter actually ships with self-configuring code on top of the = LEDE software. It initially checks bandwidth to adjust the SQM = parameters, and also seems to check continually, to account for = daily/nightly variations that may occur. (I don't have certain knowledge = of this, but they've said things that make me think it...) I absolutely agree that it would be good to have more commercial vendors = adopt this technology, so we can seek out different dragons to slay... Best, Rich > On May 14, 2017, at 8:10 PM, Frits Riep wrote: >=20 > Rich, I'd like to thank and acknowledge the excellent work done by = yourself and all the technical contributors. >=20 > I've been using and benefiting from the good work done on my routers = using fq-codel and cake as well, mostly on a TP-Link Archer C7 with = OpenWRT and LEDE builds, and that has worked well to control latency on = my internet connection. >=20 > I've also been a fan of the Ubiquiti Unifi wireless products and have = used them at home and for many small business customers. I have noted = that they have implemented Airtime fairness and that is great. >=20 > Per your note below stating some of the results, in particular I am = unclear on "- A few commercial products - notably IQrouter and Ubiquiti = - are shipping a good SQM implementation in their products" I do know = that Ubiquiti has implemented SQM in their routers, but I have not used = their routers, but I am very interested if the Unifi AP's have = implemented any Make-wifi-fast code, because I have not seen any = references to that in their release notes or in other sources. Also, = there do not appear to be any settings in their management interface to = enable or configure any SQM, fq-codel, or Cake configuration settings, = so I would think there is no Make-wifi-fast code in their current or = beta wireless implementations. They do have "Airtime Fairness" and = that has been great, but I do not know if that is due to using = Make-wifi-fast code, or their own implementation. >=20 > I am interested in any insights you can provide on this, and also in = general whether any commercial products have or are planning to = implement Make-wifi-fast. It would be great to see this be = implemented in many commercial products so that this ultimately benefits = all end-users and becomes a marketing advantage for manufacturers to = help spur implementation. >=20 > Thanks, > Frits >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Make-wifi-fast=20 > [mailto:make-wifi-fast-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of=20 > make-wifi-fast-request@lists.bufferbloat.net > Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2017 12:00 PM > To: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > Subject: Make-wifi-fast Digest, Vol 26, Issue 2 >=20 > Send Make-wifi-fast mailing list submissions to > make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net >=20 > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > make-wifi-fast-request@lists.bufferbloat.net >=20 > You can reach the person managing the list at > make-wifi-fast-owner@lists.bufferbloat.net >=20 > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific = than "Re: Contents of Make-wifi-fast digest..." >=20 >=20 > Today's Topics: >=20 > 1. Re: fq_codel is *five* years old today (Rich Brown) >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 14 May 2017 08:31:57 -0400 > From: Rich Brown > To: "Richard E. Brown" > Cc: bloat , cerowrt-devel > , > make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net, codel > > Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] fq_codel is *five* years old today > Message-ID: <612E36A6-7FB8-4FBA-AC38-339DFC04AB47@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dutf-8 >=20 > There have been so many improvements in so many ways... >=20 > - Cake is the acknowledged winner in SQM >=20 > - Make Wi-Fi Fast has removed a couple orders of magnitude of latency = in the Wi-Fi stack, and Airtime Fairness has eliminated the Wi-Fi = Paradox. >=20 > - All this is Implemented in LEDE, so it's available as a (somewhat) = straightforward install on hundreds of different kinds of routers. As a = side note, LEDE and OpenWrt are working toward a merger, with a = unification of the development efforts. >=20 > - A few commercial products - notably IQrouter and Ubiquiti - are = shipping a good SQM implementation in their products.=20 >=20 > Let's all take a moment and revel in solving some of the major = annoyances in networking. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Rich >=20 >> On May 14, 2016, at 9:18 AM, Rich Brown = wrote: >>=20 >> Another year, further progress toward world domination (or at least,=20 >> fixing the world's internet...) >>=20 >> - The team is working furiously on Making Wi-Fi Fast. This has = entailed lots of deep research into the behavior of Wi-Fi at low and = high loads, airtime fairness, wireless drivers, new hardware platforms = for testing. Lots more work ahead. >>=20 >> - We had a huge response (260 signers) to the Save Wi-Fi from the FCC = filing re: locking down OTS router firmware. >>=20 >> - We have officially declared the CeroWrt project to be dead. All its = interesting facilities have been subsumed into OpenWrt mainline code. >>=20 >> - The OpenWrt project has a fork - LEDE (http://lede-project.org) It = remains to be seen what effect this will have on our anti-Bufferbloat = effort. >>=20 >> - RIP: the original www.bufferbloat.net server. Hopefully someone can = pick up the pieces (even for historical purposes) as we re-deploy the = information to a new (non-Redmine) system. >>=20 >> What else happened this year? >>=20 >> Best regards, >>=20 >> Rich >>=20 >>> Begin forwarded message: >>>=20 >>> From: Rich Brown >>> Subject: fq_codel is *three* years old today >>> Date: May 14, 2015 at 8:11:38 AM EDT >>> To: bloat , cerowrt-devel=20 >>> >>> Cc: Justin Beech >>>=20 >>> Folks, >>>=20 >>> Today is the third anniversary of the announcement of a testable=20 >>> fq_codel (see >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/cerowrt-devel/2014-May/00298 >>> 4 >>> .html et. seq.) >>>=20 >>> Here's (an approximation of) the state of the world: >>>=20 >>> - We didn't know it at the time, but we would be able to declare = victory on CeroWrt less than three months later with the 3.10.50-1 = build. Not only did that firmware reduce bufferbloat, but it showed that = DNSSEC and IPv6 could be implemented in "normal" home routers without = any kind of jiggery-pokery. Field reports at the end of 2014 showed that = build was very stable - we had lots of reports of 80 day uptimes, and a = high of ~140 days. >>>=20 >>> - fq_codel is installed a large and growing of places. It's = available off the shelf for OpenWrt in the SQM QoS package, the Linux = kernel, IPFire, DD-WRT, and other routers. >>>=20 >>> - "Bufferbloat" is entering the lexicon. People are speaking about=20 >>> it in blogs and open literature as a known entity, not some voodoo=20 >>> effect that's only a concern to crazy people. The writers don't=20 >>> always get the description or symptoms right, but there is an=20 >>> acknowledgement that something could be better in your home (and >>> everywhere) network connection. (See for example,=20 >>> http://www.internetsociety.org/blog/tech-matters/2015/04/measure-you >>> r -bufferbloat-new-browser-based-tool-dslreports ) >>>=20 >>> - Speaking of which, the new DSLReports Speed Test has recently=20 >>> stirred things up. Not only do we have an attractive tool that we=20 >>> can recommend to friends, but people are getting a little hot under=20 >>> the collar when they see the crummy performance of the router that=20 >>> they just paid dearly for. See, for example,=20 >>> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30051856-Connectivity-Buffer-Bloat >>>=20 >>> - Now that we've shown that fq_codel conquers bufferbloat, we're = finding further optimizations. There's a lot of effort on cake, which = promises to bring higher speed processing, and looking into corner cases = that can be improved.=20 >>>=20 >>> - And of course, Dave T=C3=A4ht is taking on another big project: = "Making Wi-Fi Fast". >>>=20 >>> What else has happened in this year? >>>=20 >>> Best, >>>=20 >>> Rich >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ------------------------------ >=20 > Subject: Digest Footer >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Make-wifi-fast mailing list > Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast >=20 > ------------------------------ >=20 > End of Make-wifi-fast Digest, Vol 26, Issue 2 > ********************************************* >=20