From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp70.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp70.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F0BD3CB35 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 19A475C01; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:54:04 -0400 (EDT) X-SMTPDoctor-Processed: csmtpprox beta Received: from smtp1.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 10565627A; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from app58.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp1.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E13E86222; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:54:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: dpreed@deepplum.com Received: from app58.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by 0.0.0.0:25 (trex/5.7.12); Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:54:03 -0400 Received: from deepplum.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by app58.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0BDA0AEF; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@deepplum.com, from: dpreed@deepplum.com) with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:54:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Auth-ID: dpreed@deepplum.com Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 14:54:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "dpreed@deepplum.com" To: "Dave Taht" Cc: "Jonathan Morton" , "Cake List" , "Make-Wifi-fast" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: plain In-Reply-To: References: <22AC529F-9EF5-4ECF-85DD-F9ED08CD3C47@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1532544843.837624328@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail/15.3.1-RC Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] =?utf-8?q?=5BCake=5D_gaming_dscp_codepoint=3F?= X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 18:54:04 -0000 I don't quite understand this. Diffserv may exist, but no Internet operator= s support it. It may be "supported" in edge devices, but since the "service= " is in the network queueing, who cares?=0A=0AThe Linux gamer market is rou= nding error in the global game community.=0A=0AAnd console gamers depend on= the ISP's non-implementation.=0A=0ACaveat: I have said for years that diff= serv's huge list of codepoints is essentially the result of a committee tha= t has gone wild, creating a standard that is missing any useful path to ado= ption. There's no computable "translation" of the vague descriptions in the= standard to a predictable router queueing behavior. This is super true in = places like LTE, where you can observe bad congestion and bufferbloat even = today.=0A=0ADiscussing what codepoint means what is like discussing trivia = about an imaginary fantasy land.=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: "D= ave Taht" =0ASent: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 8:34pm=0ATo:= "Jonathan Morton" =0ACc: "Cake List" , "Make-Wifi-fast" =0AS= ubject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] gaming dscp codepoint?=0A=0AOn Tue, Jul= 24, 2018 at 5:06 PM Jonathan Morton wrote:=0A>=0A>= > On 25 Jul, 2018, at 3:01 am, Dave Taht wrote:=0A> = >=0A> > cs4?=0A> >=0A> > cs4 and cs5 end up (typically) in the (oft buggy) = linux vi queue on wifi.=0A> >=0A> > ef?=0A> >=0A> > do any of the gamers he= re observe any codepoints in use? When I=0A> > surveyed this a few years ag= o, I saw very little usage, and what=0A> > little there was was all over th= e map.=0A>=0A> If it were up to me,=0A=0AWasn't my question. Do you observe= any of your games using any codepoints?=0A=0A>I would use EF for realtime = position/command updates and voice comms, CS0 for everything non-time-criti= cal (like matchmaking, garage, shop), and CS1 for downloading patches.=0A= =0AWell, I was leaning towards cs4. I no longer remember what ef maps=0Aint= o on linux wifi, particularly since qos_map_set was created for=0Ahostapd. = Is openwrt tweaking that at all?=0A=0AThese days my aps do not use 802.11e = at all and I'm about to push a=0Achange forcing a max of 2ms per AC via the= beacon.=0A=0AClients on campus don't seem to use much dscp but I'm certain= ly seeing=0Aecn from apple devices now.=0A=0A=0A>=0A> Reason is, EF is the = only DSCP I can count on being interpreted as "latency sensitive" rather th= an "for video streaming".=0A>=0A> - Jonathan Morton=0A>=0A=0A=0A-- =0A=0AD= ave T=C3=A4ht=0ACEO, TekLibre, LLC=0Ahttp://www.teklibre.com=0ATel: 1-669-2= 26-2619=0A_______________________________________________=0AMake-wifi-fast = mailing list=0AMake-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net=0Ahttps://lists.bufferb= loat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast=0A-- =0AReed Online Ltd is a company regis= tered in England and Wales.=C2=A0Company =0ARegistration Number: 6317279.Re= gistered Office: Academy Court, 94 Chancery =0ALane, London WC2A 1DT.=0A=0A