From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf1-x12b.google.com (mail-lf1-x12b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 238B93B29E for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2020 17:36:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lf1-x12b.google.com with SMTP id 9so5415152lfq.10 for ; Thu, 13 Feb 2020 14:36:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=EBnTFy9sKBX6SEyJ9fpH+GN0HVa+lj0DerOUzuVSZxM=; b=vNHeEluoL2Y8cM1S8f69iQ0MOFFJ5j83WywLUMf32rOJkGrOaQoVZ2LtZGcwERPRHo EpFzeFP/778e8rM7+2B831vleTykdYkPo5Xj6W41RaOg8YNXNngEjMfhj8stehwBeOho b+9t7jT4Sk2zHMhfh0KAckSZ0tSRLCPYBrOlY8smYYI0aortRlyPra6CoewDcICVbfwJ zN/AT6kJShkTsp1kHpg0blW6mfmEUtlZ2+HTi0t2jzOtSB/OwLC0c0DwoaIWobe6PdqD o/oLugt/XxZq4Qz19aRNbtr2Pl5ZQTxccip5f75XQ2DQcvTWOfpwhKKu7RRkymtkXDPR 5u0Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=EBnTFy9sKBX6SEyJ9fpH+GN0HVa+lj0DerOUzuVSZxM=; b=UmG5U0+D320t7eEJnNpZzMR6RiCBHVzObIl4HQcmB7WZdpc2hrWzI3lQZE/KFNPtZl 0YJe2hElvmvblORrhcFeMivSAaBxIHBQWb85HyqfeBAjdEgdwFcNAIQibYTsh2ODOFY+ Mjczt5JBipJGgi3RH15C/3hj5kZwpSRI3GLyjxKLACrpG+QqkN344QapIvtyhWynzR+7 KZqNSvzh4MCExgXHJKNx/pJDTWbRlj3Dhlbj+bV2zisclkD7mEFPoBoL6/GS4vF2Xq66 7GJ+jjd9r99lIWNIW+OyPtGKe78WJHLtSOBqV7+ihPCIuWzTAqtUzfYU05JZTkAyf3II worQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXEfCyb2o+xsv1vONttDVjy8YeJMc0qjogEEujsXpZm4mTo3nJQ tGcYaTE+h9VNqordnfnaO9E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyQRRHD62Txrif9/aWh+mAykM1mJ/F121HGmEVaBMhDO4KzRts3eYlWzC9RrCwCLBBH/hX7Tw== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:58fa:: with SMTP id v26mr103186lfo.84.1581633400829; Thu, 13 Feb 2020 14:36:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.44.148] (airaland.cust.as3238.net. [213.204.46.226]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w16sm2010404lfc.1.2020.02.13.14.36.37 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Feb 2020 14:36:40 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton X-Priority: 3 (Normal) In-Reply-To: <1581632601.347810479@apps.rackspace.com> Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 00:36:35 +0200 Cc: Bob McMahon , Make-Wifi-fast Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <353B0939-F7FE-49C3-B637-2AEDE00C7E5B@gmail.com> References: <1581552513.586428831@apps.rackspace.com> <1581559003.730714516@apps.rackspace.com> <1581632601.347810479@apps.rackspace.com> To: "David P. Reed" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] Status of the industry on over buffering at the WiFi air interface X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2020 22:36:42 -0000 > On 14 Feb, 2020, at 12:23 am, David P. Reed = wrote: >=20 > The modem clearly is capable of giving congestion control signals to a = directly connected Ethernet path (non-wireless), by dropping packets. No - by sending Pause frames back. It's an increasingly-used method of = applying back pressure on an Ethernet link, in preference to dropping = packets. If it *did* drop packets, you wouldn't get an F grade for = bloat. So the Nighthawk is correctly halting Ethernet output in response to = those frames (it's probably a function of the NIC hardware or driver), = but exercises absolutely no control over the queue that builds up as a = result. - Jonathan Morton