From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x236.google.com (mail-lj1-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D24A3BA8E for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2019 07:38:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lj1-x236.google.com with SMTP id v12-v6so1860167ljc.6 for ; Sun, 10 Feb 2019 04:38:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=tjF4v3k+gXuePIH0IZV/QGQmEwB8AxiQUZCIXQD9X7s=; b=c79D6z6Q4v6u/65R9dwvur7Z/mKrjDzGFDcwVH3wJvAWFWOlE6EKvaZHu04nZqnuyt pw2m+U5lJRoQOOkrOWrC5qH+WZIE4Ez3j+eccg5mAu7bLmZ2imwx/906lSGp/0ww2YW3 p07neTsU7y6nAVv/76qjvFZ3yK4zIX9bGpTGkZ1mlvrJq6kLM43JF865V45rV2QnyVe/ Xzn13wf/3ExVNpJ9mOuY/v09kLJSvIlYW/feTEnzlAlvPC0MMVk+h1bQQcJ/b7ekzzl9 pUWpeq9d5goeGOuhjjeESUExTvan1KzI3Y2pSSUhLwBJts/zCHQTHV/eNZEXaZFLGq0f XPyA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=tjF4v3k+gXuePIH0IZV/QGQmEwB8AxiQUZCIXQD9X7s=; b=nl5M1AXJD0RYp5pAFwp6WT1p+OMNFrARYBP76vZDqJWebtx0u8pTHVWXWc11Y443qC 5+NSb39cV8BOIeMTWef+nKHLDpaWziVSNzGJ+D2B4V/CcwxvWyuGmAD5GMhQX24naIlo sJdbtoNRi7jtBZBg2j0WcfwmKASIvL3369039hW0jMjVpDkbBNyvNxdPwyvNomRidHnz m644QGbZ4iub+l/EYdQUE++aRffkMmYZmuc0F2AkW02ZWV7jC0P6+vPEamEuVEjbfktt /sPAkaKxAHKHoKZqbAb28wJfWgQLQbQEXE7PuOXsT6E/u1TVlJvmhmDN9dvJajge7pqq ND+g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHQUAub3bchO+8fqPlCS9cHUzN6fVB2bGPMvu51MH8/6eRFjquF2H8uy hnUXraLHSb/EnnYAth350X8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AHgI3IbuieggfS5PDe6l+G731iyYdBAceF38ar5v/BILkxOYB42nhpCUuPK/OCyIGgpdKiV2mRLkrQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9143:: with SMTP id q3-v6mr1599769ljg.27.1549802329911; Sun, 10 Feb 2019 04:38:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-239-160-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.239.160]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h22-v6sm1636099lji.45.2019.02.10.04.38.48 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 10 Feb 2019 04:38:49 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2019 14:38:43 +0200 Cc: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3CB198EB-2844-42DB-9E5A-26708BFD7304@gmail.com> References: To: Adrian Popescu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] bloated ath10k X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2019 12:38:51 -0000 > On 10 Feb, 2019, at 2:24 pm, Adrian Popescu = wrote: >=20 > My attempts to use SQM and codel to reduce wifi bloat didn't seem to = get me very far. 802.11ac seems more reliable and it seems to be more = bloated. ath9k can go as low as 3-5 milliseconds. ath10k is usually in = the 20-50 milliseconds range (or more, based on the number of stations). = I usually test with a single client as I don't expect latency to improve = with more clients. Some things are unavoidable when you move to a shared, half-duplex, = noisy medium like wifi versus a switched, full-duplex, error-free medium = like Ethernet. If you're getting 20-50ms under load, then I think things are working = quite well with wifi. We can wish for better, but not long ago you = could be looking at multiple seconds in bad cases. At the levels you're = now seeing, ordinary interactive protocols like DNS and HTTP will work = reliably and quickly, and even VoIP should be able to cope; you'll = likely only really notice a problem with online games. Ath9k has some advantages over ath10k in this area. Its MAC is managed = at a lower level by the driver, so we have much more control over it = when trying to debloat. I think we still have more control over ath10k = than most of the alternatives. If low latency is mission critical, though - just run a wire. - Jonathan Morton