From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BE143B2AF; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 14:11:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id l132so43828055wmf.1; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 11:11:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=hQqjhH/jDEC/b2AvIgGUCYYA8bQfKM5OMbVaq9uQLow=; b=zLJb5ecMzQRJaYq9vdjdSoMXI5mhfGpehwBno3hIJvePlii+Kw/Hty9n3AvbkYDuAR U4HtKtAztRrG/Owe+vJ/Xs3F9Vre6+u0A/6Lj38Let0uBjhOtuiR8ChuJYjd1mHLhVto QpCMuK1IDwB6DGgM1mY1S/t2wxPXr1cgmAbmnaIUGriubYtEOCh/VLTUp0ifUZV4xRmD FNsnt46fS8e3tNdVkP+1smWZQ7q5EEOgX9mVwK7AJqQjEQ8zkAzEdTEvSfMgoZc0gZfx 7js813W9V8azRkk9CH37ByAUVYrxFfDOfzY0lqjrVbmWaHo+CbEHRfkZ5hfU4+XAMJUA lI6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=hQqjhH/jDEC/b2AvIgGUCYYA8bQfKM5OMbVaq9uQLow=; b=TOHajhKQx7G6qV0NGpRLCKmF8y9j0D/0C/Fa5Jy5MT1JQM1OIJg7Z/fDJHJFVjwxP4 5hLhZVRKC1rv2EqRV1t8L6XZaL20gldHUOES3ITv/h/48qOq0ihbIf+zdvsIK7ijrbf6 T0lk1BLSZTxBR6bH0Dr9/teyrVc/8ND4qZPLFnEeEUsif5yjXdqPKc45V9tvvi3hCacg UlKCVDWlD5BOFn+/xWm3/9mFv1c+mAY441uLpOZesl8ZTI1ptS6XcTH+MZWRqtxY0NHJ pjEEDckXHfTn5jtE9+vhzxEGsLryOY64RDsUncmbHTecdLeBhI0wsN2Yz035SLoX1mtL oAeQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9Rlux6JszY9uZOvnX2f64S8svxEpF9AtYE2lcH3/WGiHLN1yrA+IQvr3HK5LI/1WaA== X-Received: by 10.28.196.200 with SMTP id u191mr3873888wmf.67.1474654284423; Fri, 23 Sep 2016 11:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.72.54] (h-1169.lbcfree.net. [185.99.119.68]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f10sm8355697wje.14.2016.09.23.11.11.23 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 23 Sep 2016 11:11:24 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_65663FD2-F841-471C-92B5-085821AE8EEF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Phineas Gage In-Reply-To: <87d1jud1cc.fsf@toke.dk> Cc: Dave Taht , make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net, "codel@lists.bufferbloat.net" Message-Id: <679F5D5D-34C7-468D-9460-4D25A33D1F24@gmail.com> References: <945ED215-49E0-4F56-8B9A-FA95C0A82ABE@gmail.com> <5A4FB1B4-7B2F-4E71-AA86-548C1C26181F@gmail.com> <87d1jud1cc.fsf@toke.dk> To: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 28 Nov 2016 08:47:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] Using fq_codel with a WiFi uplink to the Internet X-BeenThere: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:11:25 -0000 X-Original-Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 20:11:22 +0200 X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 18:11:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_65663FD2-F841-471C-92B5-085821AE8EEF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Sep 23, 2016, at 6:31 PM, Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen = wrote: >=20 > Phineas Gage > = writes: >=20 >> On Sep 21, 2016, at 12:32 PM, Dave Taht wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 2:59 AM, Phineas Gage = wrote: >>=20 >> Do I have any chance of running fq_codel in the driver on a Mikrotik >> 911-5HnD (firmware 3.30) with Atheros AR9300? If so, I may be able to >> test it. The camp will be off-season soon until next April for the >> snowy Czech winter, so it=E2=80=99s a good time for testing, as I = also test >> our meshed OpenWRT APs. >=20 > Can it run LEDE (OpenWrt)? If so, all you need to do is upgrade to > current trunk, and you'll be using the FQ-CoDel'ed driver :) I don=E2=80=99t know for sure, but the specs are so close to this = working board (https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/mikrotik/rb91xg_5hpnd = ) that I bet so. = Secondly, I have to find out if the ISP will allow it. They will = probably be more likely to do so if the driver could run on RouterOS = 6.34.3. I=E2=80=99m guessing that=E2=80=99s not a priority right now. :) >> Q: Would it also be useful to have fq_codel running on our APs? They >> are Open Mesh OM2P HS=E2=80=99s with "Atheros AR9341 rev 1=E2=80=9D = chips. >=20 > Most likely, yes. You may also want to include the patches that gives > you airtime fairness on those. Keeps slow stations from slowing = everyone > else down. I have a git tree with those here: > https://kau.toke.dk/git/lede/ - it's = slightly behind mainline LEDE, so > you may want to use that as a base. This is the critical file, in that > case: > = https://kau.toke.dk/git/lede/tree/package/kernel/mac80211/patches/347-ath9= k-Add-a-per-station-airtime-deficit-scheduler.patch = >=20 >> I could add it now using =E2=80=9Ctc", but any level lower than that = would >> require the driver support, obviously. My feeling is that the rate >> limiting on my Linux bridge puts the queues =E2=80=9Cmostly=E2=80=9D = there, and not in >> the APs or upstream devices. >=20 > Depends on your traffic patterns, of course. But yeah, if all your > clients share the same uplink and that has more bandwidth than the > AP-to-WiFi link, then that is where the bottleneck would be. But a > client with bad reception can end up with an effective rate as low as > 6.5 Mbps, so not always. Well, if our uplink goes to 30 Mbps or more, I=E2=80=99ve got repeater = nodes that connect to their gateways at around that rate and fluctuate, = so we=E2=80=99re likely to be moving the bottleneck around the camp = sometimes if our Internet rate goes up. And in this environment, I know = for sure that there are clients connecting at rates well below 30 Mbps! = If there were negative MCS indexes, we would be using those. Right now, the OpenWRT release we run on the APs comes from Open Mesh. = Unless I can convince them to build a driver with this patch, I=E2=80=99ll= have to build and flash my own OpenWRT and give up the use of their = online dashboard, upgrades and support. This is possible = (https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/openmesh/om2p = ). Moreover, I=E2=80=99m = more likely to be able to do this on our APs than our point-to-point = Internet uplink devices, since those are owned by the ISP. Thanks so much for these pointers and your efforts. The airtime fairness = patch also sounds fantastic. In the main season, there can be a lot of = contention in our environment at times, like when it starts raining and = everyone heads to their cabins to get online. I=E2=80=99d love to try = this out and help you test, but will see if it will be feasible for us. --Apple-Mail=_65663FD2-F841-471C-92B5-085821AE8EEF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On = Sep 23, 2016, at 6:31 PM, Toke H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen <toke@toke.dk> = wrote:

Phineas Gage <phineas919@gmail.com> = writes:

On Sep 21, 2016, at 12:32 = PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Sep = 21, 2016 at 2:59 AM, Phineas Gage <phineas919@gmail.com> wrote:

Do I have any chance of running fq_codel in the driver on a = Mikrotik
911-5HnD (firmware 3.30) with Atheros AR9300? If = so, I may be able to
test it. The camp will be off-season = soon until next April for the
snowy Czech winter, so = it=E2=80=99s a good time for testing, as I also test
our = meshed OpenWRT APs.

Can it run LEDE (OpenWrt)? If so, all you = need to do is upgrade to
current trunk, and you'll be using the = FQ-CoDel'ed driver :)

I don=E2=80=99= t know for sure, but the specs are so close to this working board (https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/mikrotik/rb91xg_5hpnd) that = I bet so. Secondly, I have to find out if the ISP will allow it. They = will probably be more likely to do so if the driver could run on = RouterOS 6.34.3. I=E2=80=99m guessing that=E2=80=99s not a priority = right now. :)

Q: Would it also be useful to have fq_codel running on = our APs? They
are Open Mesh OM2P HS=E2=80=99s with = "Atheros AR9341 rev 1=E2=80=9D chips.

Most likely, yes. = You may also want to include the patches that gives
you airtime = fairness on those. Keeps slow stations from slowing everyone
else down. I have a = git tree with those here:
https://kau.toke.dk/git/lede/ - it's slightly behind = mainline LEDE, so
you may want to use that as a base. This is the = critical file, in that
case:
https://kau.toke.dk/git/lede/tree/package/kernel/mac80211/patch= es/347-ath9k-Add-a-per-station-airtime-deficit-scheduler.patch

I could add it now using =E2=80=9Ctc", but any level = lower than that would
require the driver support, = obviously. My feeling is that the rate
limiting on my = Linux bridge puts the queues =E2=80=9Cmostly=E2=80=9D there, and not = in
the APs or upstream devices.

Depends on your traffic patterns, of course. But = yeah, if all your
clients share the same uplink and that has more = bandwidth than the
AP-to-WiFi link, then that is where the = bottleneck would be. But a
client with bad reception can end up with = an effective rate as low as
6.5 Mbps, so not always.

Well, if our uplink goes to 30 Mbps or more, = I=E2=80=99ve got repeater nodes that connect to their gateways at around = that rate and fluctuate, so we=E2=80=99re likely to be moving the = bottleneck around the camp sometimes if our Internet rate goes up. And = in this environment, I know for sure that there are clients connecting = at rates well below 30 Mbps! If there were negative MCS indexes, we = would be using those.

Right now, the OpenWRT release we run on the APs comes from = Open Mesh. Unless I can convince them to build a driver with this patch, = I=E2=80=99ll have to build and flash my own OpenWRT and give up the use = of their online dashboard, upgrades and support. This is possible (https://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/openmesh/om2p). Moreover, = I=E2=80=99m more likely to be able to do this on our APs than our = point-to-point Internet uplink devices, since those are owned by the = ISP.

Thanks so = much for these pointers and your efforts. The airtime fairness patch = also sounds fantastic. In the main season, there can be a lot of = contention in our environment at times, like when it starts raining and = everyone heads to their cabins to get online. I=E2=80=99d love to try = this out and help you test, but will see if it will be feasible for = us.

= --Apple-Mail=_65663FD2-F841-471C-92B5-085821AE8EEF--